Health Committee on Oct. 24th, 2022

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you very much, MP Sidhu, for that important question.

Yes, this legislation will benefit 1.8 million renters struggling with the cost of housing in this country. It will be available to applicants with a family income below $35,000, or $20,000 for individuals, and who pay at least 30% of their net income on rent. The application process for this benefit will be attestation-based, as my colleague has indicated, and the CRA will provide the upfront verification of an applicant's eligibility.

It's really important to also note that this benefit will not reduce other federal income-based benefits programs, and we will work with provinces and territories to ensure that recipients do not have their provincial and territorial benefits negatively impacted as a result of receiving this housing benefit.

The payment will be launched by the end of the year, pending passage of this legislation, so I really urge my Conservative colleagues to stop obstructing the passage of this legislation and to help us deliver this much-needed payment to Canadians as soon as possible.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Minister Hussen.

I'm coming back to Minister Duclos.

Minister Duclos, you mentioned that two million school days are missed by children every year because they need to go to emergency dental care. Can you expand on how this bill will help avoid emergency dental care interventions?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's correct. About 2.2 million days of school are missed by children because of emergency dental care, as you've noted. They unfortunately in many cases end up in an emergency room in a hospital, and we know that this is not the right place for children to be looked after.

That is also the source of the majority of surgeries under anesthesia for children. If you look at all surgeries under anesthesia that are done for children, the majority of those are due to dental conditions, which, again, prevention would have prevented in many cases. It obviously impacts much more so the lower-income families, including families from marginalized communities who face all sorts of trouble and struggles in life, making them, again, very unable to access basic, fundamental dental care for their children.

It's a fundamental right in Canada to have access to appropriate health care, and that includes appropriate dental care.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

I want to say thank you to the ministers and all the officials. Thank you for your hard work. It's important legislation. I know how many millions of Canadians are getting benefits from it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Sidhu.

Mr. Garon, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the ministers and the officials for being here with us.

Mr. Duclos, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has shown, and this is a fact, that what you call your dental care program will severely penalize Quebec. Quebec has 23 per cent of the children in Canada and will receive 13 per cent of the money. There are two reasons why Quebec is being penalized: first, Quebec already has a dental care coverage system, imperfect thought it may be, for children aged ten and under; second, Quebecers are more unionized than people in the rest of Canada and are therefore more likely to have paid for group insurance out of their own and their employer's pockets, which makes them ineligible for benefits.

Minister, I want to be sure that Quebecers hear your answer. Are you aware that your bill, which is sponsored by the NDP, is anti-union?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Garon. I congratulate you on your interest in this issue, which is a very important one, including for children and families in Quebec.

I have two answers to that.

First, the Canada dental benefit supplements the Quebec program, which, as we know, covers children aged nine and under, but does not cover preventive care. When it comes to health, we know how important preventive care is. There is scaling, cleaning, fluoride...

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, the Minister is not answering my question.

Are you aware that your Bill C‑31, sponsored by the NDP, is anti-union? Do you know this? I expect a brief answer.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Let me finish. You are doing well. You insist, and you deserve an appropriate answer, given your interest in the question.

The first thing is that these Quebec children are going to have stengthened coverage, especially for prevention, because, as you know very well, prevention is essential in health care. Preventing health problems is therefore...

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister.

So the Minister does not realize that his bill is anti-union. We will remind Quebecers of this.

Your approach consists of using your spending power to send cheques directly to individuals. Are you aware that if we had done the same thing in the 1970s with the provinces' health care systems, that is, send cheques to people instead of helping the provinces, we would have a private health care system today? And yet the NDP is backing this.

Are you aware of this fact?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

You are certainly aware, Mr. Garon, that this is a first step toward a better and more appropriate dental insurance plan, because, as you said so well, this is a temporary measure, which will lead, a little later, and we are eager to provide the details, to a dental insurance plan that will be better than the one we are going to have in the next few weeks.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Minister, you are in a good mood today. You come to the committee. It does not bother you that when it comes to the spending allocated to your program, a Quebecer is worth half of a Canadian in the rest of Canada. Are you proud of that? You are telling us you are happy with that.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I wanted to answer you just now, but you interrupted me several times.

I told you that in Quebec, children aged nine and under already had access to a program, and that is wonderful. However, it is an incomplete program that is going to be supplemented by this benefit, which will be offered to all children and all families in Quebec, to add to preventive health care, which is essential.

We all know, and you know very well too, that when it comes to health care, it is preferable to act before people need health care.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

It is not an excellent bill, but you have an innate talent for not answering questions, Minister.

Your parliamentary secretery suggested earlier this week that there was no point in hearing witnesses today, because, in any event, everything had been decided in advance, the bill would not be amended, and its inherent problems would not be solved by the committee.

Is that your opinion?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I would be happy to participate in your work, if you invited me even more often.

I know one thing. The work done by the committee is work on which a minister has no direct impact.

If you take, between you...

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Monsieur Garon actually implied that we said something in camera, and we're not allowed to talk about what we talk about in camera.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I actually wondered whether his reference was to something that was said in camera or something that may have been said in the House. I don't know.

Mr. Garon, if the subject you spoke of was mentioned in camera...

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

No, Mr. Chair, that is not the case.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Right.

Go ahead.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

Minister, you know that you could have simply raised the Canada Child Benefit, the CCB, without using a dentist's bill, so that everyone got their share. You know there is no connection between the amount of the payment you are offering and the amount of the dentist's bill.

Are you aware of that?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

What we are aware of, and you know it as well, is that this payment is a dental benefit.

Children and families are going to use this money to cover the dental care they would not have covered otherwise and to which they would not have had access otherwise. It is a very good thing...

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

... to obviously reduce the cost of living, but also to have a...

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

We have tight timing. You did not want to have witnesses and be here long, so we have to time things.

My next question is for the Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion.

In your mandate letter, the Prime Minister directed you to "work with provinces ... to develop a Fairness in Real Estate Action Plan".

Minister, who is the minister responsible for housing in Quebec? What is her name?

It seems not. You undoubtedly have it in your notes. So you certainly did not call her.

You did call her. You checked it on your phone.

We have met once in our lives, and I know your name.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I will tell you. She's in my contact list, actually—