Health Committee on Dec. 8th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Welcome to meeting number 48 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Health. Today we meet for two hours with the sponsors of Bill C-224 and Bill S-203.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. The folks who are online are well aware of the rules of hybrid proceedings. Just as a reminder, please don't take any screenshots or photos of your screen.

The proceedings today will be made available on the House of Commons website.

The tests have been conducted for those participating online and everything is functioning in terms of audio and video.

It is now my absolute pleasure to finally welcome Sherry Romanado, who has joined us today to talk about her private member's bill, Bill C-224, an act to establish a national framework for the prevention and treatment of cancers linked to firefighting.

Mrs. Romanado, thank you so much for clearing your schedule to be here with us today. I invite you to make an opening statement of up to five minutes. You have the floor.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Good morning, everyone.

Colleagues, I'll be making my remarks in both official languages, so anyone requiring interpretation may want to put on their headsets.

Mr. Chair, I'm honoured to be here today to speak about Bill C-224, my private member's bill.

Before I begin, I'd like to take a moment to thank the Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs, whose president is here with us today, as well as the International Association of Fire Fighters for their collaboration and their wise counsel in the preparation of this bill.

Canada has an estimated 126,000 firefighters working in some 3,200 fire departments across the country. Each and every day, these brave men and women put their lives on the line to protect their fellow Canadians and keep our communities safe. We all recognize that the work these emergency responders do is essential and that their job is dangerous, but the larger risks that they face in the line of duty linger long after the fire has been put out.

Because they are exposed to smoke and toxic chemicals, firefighters are at four times the risk of suffering from cancer than the general population.

I believe it is our duty as parliamentarians to do everything in our power to protect the health and safety of our firefighters.

This bill seeks to do just that, Mr. Chair. Its goal, in short, is to save lives.

Are you aware that over 85% of all duty-related deaths among Canadian firefighters are caused by occupational cancers or that a firefighter's cancer diagnosis may or may not be recognized as job related, depending on where he or she lives in the country?

The idea of this bill came to me after I was contacted by a member of the agglomeration of Longueuil's fire department who had been diagnosed with work‑related cancer. He wanted to make me aware of the increased risk that firefighters face on a daily basis. He also mentioned that some of his colleagues had a type of cancer that other provinces recognized as being linked to firefighting, but not Quebec.

In researching my bill, I was shocked to discover the disparity in the number of cancers that our provinces and territories recognize as linked to firefighting, as you can see in the map before you.

Multiple studies have shown that firefighters are at an increased risk for different types of cancer due to the smoke and hazardous chemicals they are exposed to in the line of duty. In June of this year, the World Health Organization's International Agency for Research on Cancer reclassified firefighting as a group 1 carcinogenic profession.

The research is there. We need to promote awareness, information-sharing and education on best practices for prevention, and recognize that occupational cancers in firefighting exist. That is where Bill C-224 comes in.

Imagine, Mr. Chair, if we could share information on best practices, data and research, so all firefighters across Canada know the risks and, more importantly, know how to take the necessary precautions.

The aim of this bill is to promote education and awareness, by making the month of January firefighter cancer awareness month.

It is also to establish a national framework to promote research, information-sharing and knowledge-sharing relating to the prevention and treatment of cancers linked to firefighting.

Countless local fire departments across the country have reached out to me to voice their support for the legislation. We aim to work together across all jurisdictions to improve the health and safety of Canada's firefighters.

Many municipal councils, such as that of the municipality of Saint‑Donat and of the RCM of Matawinie, have passed resolutions indicating their support for Bill C‑224.

At the Canadian Fallen Firefighter Memorial service I attended on September 11 of this year, a family member of Fire Chief Leo Grant Sabulsky of the Chetwynd Volunteer Fire Department in B.C. who had succumbed to cancer linked to his service, said this: “Throughout the years, I was prepared for the possibility of a disaster involving an explosion, collapsing buildings or falls. I never imagined that his life would be cut short through slow, continuous exposure while doing the very thing that he loved the most. It is my hope that monumental progress will be made to protect our young firefighters from making the ultimate sacrifice in such a terrible way.”

Colleagues, firefighter line-of-duty deaths attributed to cancer may not be as sensational as those caused by fire or ground accidents and they may not make the same headlines, but the level of sacrifice is just the same and firefighters and their families need to know the risks, how to mitigate their chances of developing cancer through best practices and, should they develop an occupational-related cancer, have the supports they need and that they deserve.

I look forward to your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much, Ms. Romanado.

We're now going to begin with rounds of questions, starting with the Conservatives for six minutes.

Mr. Lewis, welcome to the committee. You have the floor.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's an honour to be here this morning at the health committee for the first time. It is probably one of the most unique opportunities for me as a member of Parliament to truly bring some experience to committee.

With that, I will, first and foremost, say congratulations to Ms. Romanado. I am so incredibly proud of you on so many fronts. You represent both volunteers and professional firefighters. As far as I'm concerned, they're the exact same. Smoke is smoke and fire is fire. I want to say thank you so much for bringing forward this very well-thought-out bill, a bill that I not only completely endorse but that I also believe is so vitally important.

I probably won't have a lot of questions for Ms. Romanado, but I do want to share a couple of stories. Over the last five weeks, I was at the Kingsville retirees dinner. I was part of the Kingsville fire department and I was at their retiree dinner. I ran into a gentleman by the name of Mr. Art Voakes. He served 32 years. He just retired about two months ago. Mr. Voakes shared a story with me that he had no idea he was walking around with prostate cancer, and he did give me permission to tell this story this morning. He had no clue he had it.

I didn't know this until this morning, but, generally speaking, men are on a scale of zero to five for their prostates. He was at 19.1, Ms Romanado. He was basically walking dead, which is what the doctors told me. Thank goodness, the doctors removed his prostate and saved his life. He said, “Chris, I think testing should be done for firefighters every five years, both firefighters who are working today and also the retirees.” That's just one example.

There is a second example I would give as to why this bill, Bill C-224, is so vitally important. I was at the Windsor fire retirees dinner a month ago and I sat next to the chief health officer. He said, “Chris, are you aware that now Parkinson's disease has been linked to firefighting?” I said I had no idea. So the very folks whom we rely on, whom we scream for help to when the cat's caught in a tree, pardon the pun, or when our house is burning or when somebody is dying of a medical emergency, are the exact same ones who go out there and run to our assistance and do it with service. It's no different from this House. These are the same folks who, I'm going to suggest, are too embarrassed to even say that they're struggling through this, that they're fighting these illnesses. If we can, at the very least, make January firefighter awareness month, specifically with regard to cancers, my goodness, that would be about the biggest slam dunk in the whole world.

My question would be, through you, Mr. Chair, to Ms. Romanado—and I don't want to stall this bill. As a matter of fact, I wish this bill was done eight months ago. Can I ask you, is there something else in this bill you would like to see perhaps that would enhance it even further?

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

I know that Christmas is coming, MP Lewis, and I think firefighters across the country want to see parliamentarians come together, as we have, on this bill to get this done. As for what I would like to see in this bill, I would like to see this bill passed—for them.

I didn't say thank you to you.

Thank you for your service, but also thank you for standing by me on this one and giving me counsel as a firefighter. I want to thank you for that, because, while my father was a firefighter and my husband was a firefighter, I did not serve. I'm a family of one, but having that first-hand experience and counsel has been enormously helpful to me, and I appreciate everything you've done to help with this bill. If I had anything to ask for for Christmas, it would be that this bill gets reported back to the House before we rise.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, how much time do have I left, please, sir?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have one minute.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

I'll just wrap up my thoughts here. I'm going to build on Ms. Romanado's comment with regard to family.

We firefighters can't do this by ourselves. We come home from a long day's work—which everybody does—carrying a whole bunch of stress and a huge load in our minds and our hearts. I've said it before and I'll say it again, and I'm proud to say it. If I don't talk about it, then shame on me: I still get recurring dreams about car accidents that I have been to and folks we've pulled out of fires. I'm not embarrassed to say so—it's the truth.

With regard to the awareness that we are trying to raise by passing this bill here, is there something else specifically regarding mental illness, maybe a new private member's bill or something else, we can do to support our firefighters, our families? It's not just specifically to support the firefighters themselves, but also the husbands and wives who have to live with firefighters, who have to sleep with them, who wake up because, quite frankly, some of us are having nightmares. Is there something else you can see?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

I would say too that I was very happy to be one of the first members of the government to support Bill C-211, Todd Doherty's private member's bill in the 42nd Parliament with respect to PTSD for first responders. I think showing cross-party support for PTSD for those who respond, whether it be military, firefighters, police or emergency responders, is vital. I think we've demonstrated we can work together to get things done.

Thank you.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Lewis and Ms. Romanado.

Next is Mr. van Koeverden, please, for six minutes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Sherry. Thank you for being here. Thank you for all of your work on this and for being a champion for people like your father and your husband and for over 100,000 firefighters across the country, people who have served, people who are serving, and people who will serve. Firefighting is—to rank them—one of the most important roles in our communities. Firefighters don't just put out fires. They're always there for us, whether it's a car accident or a cat in a tree as Mr. Lewis said. Whatever it is, firefighters are heros. I'm very proud of all of my friends. A lot of paddlers, a lot of people who used to do sport, chatted about this the other night at the reception, about how many people who used to do sport gravitate towards a team environment and want to keep supporting their community members.

I didn't know that firefighting was linked to so many chronic illnesses until I was 17 years old. When I was 17, I was here in Ottawa. The national championships were here, and there was an award for a new trophy. It was called the Jean Fournel trophy. Jean Fournel was an amazing Olympian in my sport. His two kids, who I got to go to the Olympics with a couple of times, Hugues and Émilie.... However, Jean died from leukemia way too young. He was a firefighter. He was also a Montreal Olympian. He got to go to the Olympics at home. He was an amazing guy. My coach.... I went to the Olympics with him, and he said his arms were the size of his legs. He was an incredible guy.

I remember, back in 1999 here in Ottawa, sitting on that podium and listening to the announcer talk about Jean in a long story. We got the long version of it when the trophy was awarded the first time, and we just sat there and we cried. We cried with these two little kids—I think they were 10 and 12 at the time—Émilie and Hugues. We didn't know that nine years later we were going to be at the Olympics together. Émilie and Hugues are two of my closest friends. I never got to know their dad, Jean, but there are a lot of stories, and he was an amazing guy.

This past weekend in Milton, I attended the celebration of life for James Finn. Jim Finn was born and raised in Milton, and he spent his entire life giving back to the committee. He worked for the Town of Milton in the operations department for over 44 years. For a lot of that time, we only had volunteer firefighters, and he served alongside the brave men and women in the Milton fire department for 47 years. We didn't really get into the specifics of James' illness, but he died from cancer at the age of 76, and he leaves behind his wonderful kids. This is a big family. His nephew taught me in high school. It's a big family with a lot of teachers and a lot of firefighters.

We know that firefighters quite literally take their work home with them. When I visited the new fire station with Chief Gatto in Milton a couple of weeks ago, I wanted to talk to some firefighters about this bill. They told me more than I ever knew was possible about how many dangerous chemicals are involved in the field of firefighting, about how much contamination is on their uniforms when they get off the job and are coming back from a work site from putting out a fire and being around noxious chemicals, and about how much is probably on their clothes when they go home, too. I know that you have a lot to say about this bill. We've talked about it a lot. I'm just going to open the floor to you. I know you have more to say than you had the time to say. I just want to say thank you to you, your staff, and everybody who helped and to the firefighters who provided such great advice and recommendations to this bill. This bill is going to change and save lives.

Thank you, Sherry.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you so much, Adam.

One thing you mentioned.... I want to be clear. Chris, also—sorry, I'm going to use your first names because we're all colleagues here—I want to be really clear. Whether a career firefighter, a volunteer firefighter or an on-call firefighter, a firefighter is a firefighter. They are exposed to the same chemicals. I want to be clear that this bill covers all firefighters—indigenous firefighters, firefighters in the Canadian Armed Forces, firefighters across Canada—because cancer doesn't discriminate, and neither does fire.

The important thing is talking about this. If we know that there are 19 cancers recognized as linked to service in Manitoba, Manitoba has information that, perhaps if we get everyone around the table to share what information they have, what research, which data.... This is where we're going to start talking about prevention, understanding that in terms of decontamination, big city fire departments in Toronto have the resources for decontamination at the site of a fire. However, when you are a volunteer firefighter and you keep your bunker gear in your car and you haven't decontaminated it, that is the same trunk that you put your family groceries in. This is what I'm talking about.

The pride we had when we were kids growing up.... I remember putting my dad's boots on. The boots were covered in soot. I would put on his bunker gear, his jacket, and it would drag on the floor because I was so little. Firefighters took pride in how dirty their uniforms were, right? You worked harder.

Today, that would be unheard of because it is contaminated with toxic chemicals. We know now that you need to wipe down. Don't get into the vehicle with your contaminated gear. Exposure through the skin is actually probably more dangerous. Because you wear your SCBA, self-contained breathing apparatus, you're not breathing it in as much, but you're exposed to it. That's what this is about. It's about bringing awareness through the designation of January as firefighter cancer awareness month but also through best practices, through knowing to please not carry your bunker gear in your car, to change the hood after every fire, to not wash your equipment in your family washing machine or in a public laundromat. That's what this is about.

I learned so much in the course of researching this bill of which I myself had no idea. I remember that, at the second hour of debate at second reading, I said that one thing I'm really proud of is that “[t]here are now 338 members of Parliament”—representing every Canadian—“who [now] know that firefighting” is a carcinogenic profession.

When we talk to firefighters in our respective ridings, we can make sure and ask, “Are you aware? Do you know? Are you taking the proper precautions?”

That's what this bill is about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mrs. Romanado.

We go now to the Bloc québécois.

Mr. Champoux, welcome to the meeting.

You have the floor.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Romanado, thank you for being here with us today. Before the meeting started, we had a chance to chat and we were saying that it is a special thing for a parliamentarian to appear before a committee to speak about his or her private member's bill. I have to say that you have been doing a great job up until now. Congratulations.

I think that all my colleagues here, as well as all Quebeckers and Canadians, admire firefighters greatly. We all have a story to tell about firefighters. I won't go into detail, but I think that all little boys and girls grow up dreaming about becoming police officers or firefighters. These are jobs that children idealize. That wasn't my case, however. My admiration for firefighters came much later. At the time, I was working as a seaman on a cruise ship. At one point, I was told that I would have to take firefighting training the following Saturday. The training was very short and was nothing like the fulsome training of professional firefighters, but we still had to take it. That day, I understood what firefighting meant. I had a tiny glimpse of what it means to have to go fight a fire. Obviously, you understand that we weren't really sent into a house where there were people to be saved. That day, I understood the impact of the job, or rather of the calling, because it's more of a calling than a job. I have much admiration for the profession since that day.

Afterwards, I spent a good chunk of my career and life working in the media. Every time there was an event where we had to raise funds for a cause, the firefighters were there lending a helping hand. Every time there was an emergency or need within the community, firefighters were always the first ones to show up.

For me, it is inconceivable to not be full of admiration and gratitude towards these men and women that are always there to protect us and always answer the call as soon as we need them.

I am happy that you brought up the issue of volunteer firefighters, because they constitute the vast majority of firefighters in Quebec. It is good that you spoke about their concerns, especially the fact that they often bring their equipment back home in their car. That is an important point that I wanted to talk about.

However, to start on a lighter note, can you please tell me if you knew that your bill would garner so much attention and support from the get‑go? Were you expecting this when you introduced Bill C‑224 in January?

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Champoux.

Honestly, I was not expecting it. I was really surprised by the tremendous amount of support that I have received not only in the House of Commons, but also from everywhere in Canada, and even in the United States. Americans have contacted me to say that they, too wanted to talk about the fact that the profession of firefighting has inherent health risks.

Often, people understand perfectly well that firefighters are at a greater risk of contracting lung cancer because of the smoke exposure, but there are also many other types of cancer that are linked to the job. When I was doing my research, I contacted many firefighters from all regions to get their advice. I even had the opportunity to work with chiefs from the International Association of Fire Fighters. Honestly, I was really touched by the fact that people were ready to come and see me to talk about their own situation. Some people told me very personal things. And yet, as Mr. Lewis stated, very often the guys do not want to talk about their injuries, which are not only physical, but also psychological. I was therefore very touched that people came to talk to me about their personal circumstances, for example the death of a fellow firefighter due to a type of cancer which was work-related.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

If you had known that you would be given this forum, are there any other things that you would have included in Bill C‑224? There are perhaps things that you didn't include because you thought they weren't relevant or that they weren't really part of your mandate. Is there something the committee could contribute right now?

The Joint Emergency Preparedness Program, which helps to replenish the inventory of equipment used by firefighters for training and work in Canada, comes to mind. Do you think it would be useful to add that to Bill C‑224?

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

You are bringing up something which is quite interesting.

As I said earlier, the bill is very much oriented towards strategies that would increase awareness about all types of information relevant to the health of firefighters. For example, it could be meetings between the provinces and territories as well as stakeholder individuals and organizations to discuss current data and needs in the area of prevention. That would be the start of a discussion that would allow us to see if we have all the equipment and all the tools necessary to prevent these illnesses. This is a discussion that we have to have. If you have any suggestions, I am listening.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I get the impression that almost all the MPs around the table as well as the other MPs in the House of Commons are quite receptive to the idea of improving the bill, if it is possible to do so.

Thank you very much, Ms. Romanado.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

Next is Mr. Davies, please, for six minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, Sherry, I want to thank you for bringing this legislation forward. Parliament is at its best when it's bringing before all of us important legislation that will make a real difference in people's lives, and I think everybody....

I'm sorry.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

We're getting French translation in the English channel.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

That might be an improvement.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

It probably would be.