Health Committee on March 23rd, 2023

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

It's just disappointing. We've been in a massive shortage of baby formula for more than a year. Parents are struggling. Families are going from store to store to store just to try to find baby formula so they can feed the most vulnerable people in our society. These are parents who often don't have a choice. There is not some other option to feed their child, and the Government of Canada doesn't have any spending in the estimates whatsoever—despite this being a massive crisis—to have more baby formula produced here so we're not dependent on foreign supply chains. This is absolute lunacy.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

One hundred and fifty and 70 are the two numbers we just heard. In Canada 150 different formulas have been brought in, and 70 additional formulas have been brought into Canada because of the work of Health Canada. That being said, this is a very challenging, stressful situation for lots of families, children and mothers, obviously, across Canada. This is going to last for another couple of weeks. We're not going to—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

It will be weeks. You can assure us that we will have more—

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

It will be weeks, possibly months, because we can't control foreign production unless we send—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Then why not invest in domestic production for baby formula?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's why this is one of the things we need to do. In addition, in the short term, because we can't wait until a domestic plant is created, we'll keep bringing in additional formulas, exports from Europe and other places in the world.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Are you committing that you will be spending money to increase domestic production of baby formula using Canada's world-class milk industry?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

We are going to do two things: First, in the short term, we are going to invest to try to resolve this crisis. It is being driven entirely by issues of foreign production; therefore, it has to be resolved through expediting exports, which we have done. However, we need to do even more in the next weeks and months, because we know this crisis is going to be there for some time.

The second thing, which we have done with vaccine production, research and development of treatments for COVID, PPD and so many other things in the last years, quite successfully—not perfectly but quite successfully—is to do that also—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I guess I'm not going to get an answer, and I think I'm out of time.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

—for infant formula and other products essential for Canadian families.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have one more question, Mrs. Goodridge. Go ahead.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I think it's sad, and I want to put it on the record. I'm asking very simply if there was spending for increasing domestic production, and the answer is no. I asked if there was domestic production, and the answer is no. We're exporting product, but we're not finding it on the shelves. That doesn't really help families that are struggling today, and it's not planning for the future for the families that are inevitably going to be struggling going forward.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

What is going to help in the short term is to keep expediting, through the regulatory work that the department is doing, the ability of families to receive important infant formula. That's going to be what matters in the next weeks and months. Eventually, in the next years hopefully, we'll have domestic production of infant formula. We can't wait years for that to happen, which is why the resources we're investing in the regulatory work of Health Canada are going to be so important in the weeks and months to come.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Dr. Powlowski, go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Good morning.

I don't know about you all, but I'm really happy to be meeting with the minister and the department and, for the first time in three years, not talking a lot about COVID, which is tremendous. Things are getting better, but as Don pointed out, as things get better, I think it's incumbent upon us to think of the future and the possibility of something like COVID reoccurring. Certainly as part of the process—and I think all levels of government have to look at what happened with COVID to see how we could do better next time—at the global level, we have to review what we can do in order to be able to more quickly detect outbreaks of these diseases and respond to them.

With that in mind, I will ask you this, Minister Duclos. You and I were at a meeting of stakeholders the other day to talk to various experts to inform Canada's position in the ongoing negotiations of a new treaty on infectious disease that the WHO is carrying out. Maybe you could talk a little about that treaty, the importance of that treaty and how your department is engaging the public, as was the case with that meeting, in terms of helping to inform our position in the negotiations.

Last, I know you've hired quite a number of people, including global experts like Steven Hoffman, who's an acknowledged leader globally in global health law, to be part of our team in negotiating the treaty. Could you talk a bit about some of those new hires, perhaps?

Thanks.

You're welcome to use any of your department officials in responding.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Good. Please, stand ready, Dr. Njoo.

First, let us acknowledge that this pandemic has been a global pandemic, and future pandemics will require global actions and reactions. Those will include a better flow of information at the global level on the nature of the viruses or whatever other sources of pathogens there may be, the epidemiology, and the possible treatments and diagnostics. This is all global science. In addition to being global science, it is also a set of global reactions that matter so much.

That's why, Marcus, I want to thank you for being at the centre of this exercise, trying to make it better for the world to collaborate and to exchange information in future pandemics, because we know there will be more. Climate change, the loss of forests, globalization and the movements of people are increasing the probability and the intensity of future pandemics.

The WHO's work and the treaty, which obviously requires significant international collaboration, are key in saving and protecting millions of lives. Estimates suggest that because countries were able to work together, more than 20 million lives were saved in the world, including hundreds of thousands here in Canada. Those are many people whose lives have been saved, or in larger numbers who have been protected, because of international collaboration and domestic actions.

When it comes to what more we need to do on the world stage, I'll turn to you, Dr. Njoo.

[Dr. Howard Njoo]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

A short answer to add to what the minister said is that as a country we are very engaged. We are looking forward to contributing to this very important process and negotiations at the WHO, where I think you're referring to the pandemic instrument.

As you alluded to, in terms of expertise and how we're engaging, certainly Dr. Hoffman and I and lots of other internal experts here within the health portfolio are going to be part of that process. In addition, we're looking forward to engaging with stakeholders across the country.

For example, yesterday there was a forum held, and I had a session with the chief medical officers of health, in terms of the public health community at least. That was a very important first step with respect to bringing everyone up to speed and also laying out the path forward. This is going to unfold over the coming months, so it's important that we continue to engage with public health experts across the country, with academics, with civil society and so on to make sure we put our best foot forward as a country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Njoo and Dr. Powlowski.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, will you admit that your methodology to claim money from Quebec is approximate and inaccurate, and that it's sloppy, yes or no?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

What it is, is collaborative, Mr. Thériault. As you are suggesting, all that data makes sense when the various levels of government exchange it. That's why, over the past five years, officials from various—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Yes or no?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

…governments have been working together.

As Mr. Dubé keeps saying—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Minister, I only have two and a half minutes.

Do you know what a letter of agreement no. 108 is?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'm all ears.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

A letter of agreement no. 108 represents a deal the Quebec government makes with the private sector.

Did you know that in 2021‑22, the Quebec government entered into deals of that kind with private clinics? Since your methodology is inaccurate, you're claiming an amount for a situation that's already been corrected.

Are you going to give that money back to Quebec?