Health Committee on March 23rd, 2023

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

First, that is perfect example of—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Are you going to give that money back to Quebec?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'm getting there.

First, that's an example of innovation. We know that the private sector has to play a role, and it's already playing a role, in improving access to health care across the country. Second, it's easier to access that data when you work with the private sector. That's why we invite all public officials and experts to share this data so that we can get the best possible estimates, but also the best responses to those estimates.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Why was your methodology so inaccurate? Why didn't you check with Quebec to get a real analysis of the situation?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'm going to turn to the deputy minister. It's been five years—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

No, I'm talking to you. I will have time later to ask the officials questions. I'm asking you the question, Mr. Minister. You issued the press release about this. You didn't put enough money into health care for what's reasonably important over the short and medium term.

As if that weren't enough, you're using a methodology that makes no sense. We're talking about close to $41.8 million here, but you don't even know what that's based on, not to mention that it seems the problem has already been solved.

Have you checked into that, or do you plan to check into it in the next few days?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

What we really need to do is check to make sure that people don't need to pay for key diagnostics, like cancer detection, chronic illness or another health problem. That way, people will have access to treatment.

People's lives are put at risk when they don't have access to diagnostic services and they have to delay the care they so desperately need until later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

The last round of questions for this panel will be for Mr. Davies, for the next two and a half minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have three questions.

Minister, I'm going to ask you to please keep your answers to the time that I ask them in.

Minister, Canadians pay the third-highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. Since they were elected in 2015, the Liberal government has promised to reduce these prices. Can you tell us if prices have come down since then?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

This is both an important question and a question that requires a clear answer.

First, on the issue that matters the most, as you said, in Canada we pay prices that are excessively high. The prices of patented medicine are just below those in—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Minister, with respect, I have 10 seconds left. I just asked if they've come down or not.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

As we know—I can turn to officials—there are thousands of different prices—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Overall, have they come down?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I can turn to whoever is the expert around the table to provide the mean estimate, but that mean estimate may be misleading because there are so many different types of products.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm sorry. We're out of time for that question. I'm going to move to my next one.

Minister, can you confirm if the patented pharmaceutical industry is currently in compliance with its commitment to spend 10% of its sales on research and development in Canada?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

My understanding is that this is not the case. That's why we need to have the industry invest more in research, development and production of these essential drugs in Canada.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Do you know what the percentage is?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

It has changed over the years. It is certainly not at the level where it should be.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Finally, in 2019, the Liberal government—your government—appointed the Hoskins advisory council to study pharmacare. It recommended that your government implement a “universal, single-payer” pharmacare system by enacting new stand-alone legislation embodying the five principles in the Canada Health Act.

Minister, can you confirm if the Canada pharmacare act that your government has committed to passing this year will adhere to Dr. Hoskins's recommendations?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

What we will do is exactly what we committed to, and I believe many members of this committee and in the House will be supportive of that. It's to introduce an act, a pharmacare act, in 2023, which will have three objectives: first, to increase accessibility to essential drugs; second, to increase the affordability of these drugs; and third, to make sure that the drugs are safe and effective. It's on the basis of these three principles that we look forward to seeing this bill tabled.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

Thank you, Minister Duclos and your panel of esteemed officials and advisers.

I realize that the format is difficult. I appreciate your patience. We're trying to do our best to make sure everyone gets to pose their questions. I know it isn't always easy, but thank you so much for being here, and thank you for what you do for Canadians and for us.

Ms. Goodridge, go ahead.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Chair, we started late—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

No, we didn't. We started at precisely 11 o'clock.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

—and we're now ending five minutes early.