Health Committee on April 27th, 2023

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Yes, I guess I asked, through you, Chair, a very simple question: How many are actually making vaccines in Canada?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Again, I can point to—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

It's a simple number, sir. I don't need a long answer.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I think you need the right answer, because your question is very good, and I'm so proud, and other members are equally proud—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Excuse me. Through you, Chair, I'm going to interrupt you one more time.

The answer is actually zero.

How many doses of influenza vaccine do we have stockpiled for the next potential pandemic in Canada?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I think, Dr. Ellis, I will offer to organize a briefing with your office and any other colleagues around this House—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Excuse me, sir. I asked you another question. It was about stockpiled influenza vaccine for the next pandemic in Canada.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I will certainly, if you want, obviously, invite you to a briefing—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Sir, I will interrupt you one last time.

The answer is zero. There are no stockpiles for the next influenza pandemic in Canada. The United States has 20,000,000 doses stockpiled. We have none, and so I'll answer my own question. The PMPRB was not doing its job. It took you an inordinate amount of time to intervene in that situation. I'm afraid to say you were not doing your job.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Well, I'm going to invite my team and officials to get back to you, Dr. Ellis, because there are some inaccuracies—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

That is the end of my questions, Chair.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

—in what I hear, and I would like those inaccuracies to be corrected in the right context, if that's fine, Mr. Chair.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I don't have any further questions, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Ellis.

Mr. van Koeverden, you have six minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses for joining us. Particularly, Minister, thank you for being here.

I have three specific questions, Minister. I would ask that each answer stay within about a minute.

First, could you clarify for the committee what the role of the PMPRB is, some of its limitations, and for the benefit of those watching, the difference between a patented drug and a non-patented or generic drug? It's important to note that the PMPRB is not in charge of the prices of all drugs.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you.

As you know and as it is important to be reminded, the PMPRB is one of the many tools the federal government uses to increase affordability and accessibility of drugs. The PMPRB is part of the Patent Act. It was created in 1987 as a consumer protection pillar in order to implement a major set of reforms to the Patent Act that were put into place at that time.

It's important, again, to emphasize that this agency—this board and the associated regulations—are just one part of the government's pharmaceutical agenda. For instance, we are moving forward with the establishment of a Canadian drug agency. We also launched, just a few weeks ago, as you know, a very important drugs for rare diseases strategy, which is going to change the lives of thousands and tens of thousands of children in particular, and their caregivers and families. We are investing, through the biomanufacturing strategy, in companies like Moderna, Sanofi and Laboratoire KABS in Quebec. AstraZeneca announced, just a few weeks ago, a very important expansion of its research and development operations in Mississauga.

Those are important aspects of the important complementary work the PMPRB also does.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

You touched on some amendments, in your remarks, with regard to the regulations of the PMPRB. Can you explain, for the benefit of this committee, through the chair, what the intended impact of these amendments would be?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you.

Almost exactly one year ago, in April 2022, I issued a statement that the Government of Canada would proceed with the amendments to the patented medicines regulations to provide the PMPRB with new tools to protect Canadians against excessive prices for patented medicines. The Court of Appeal of Quebec and the Federal Court of the Government of Canada upheld the constitutionality of that new regulation, the updated “basket of comparator countries”. That's why we also heard many other stakeholders and partners wanting to move forward with that important announcement.

Having done that, as a result of the coming into force of that new regulation on July 1, 2022, we are expecting the board to put into place the guidelines that will be there to support the important implementation of those strong regulations dating from July 1, 2022.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

You wrote a letter to the former acting chairperson about some of these guidelines for the PMPRB. Mr. Herder has since said that the letter undermined the board's independence. Do you feel the same? How do you react to that suggestion?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

First, I think it's important to express our utmost respect for the role and the difficult job that the PMPRB has as an independent quasi-judicial body within the federal government.

The federal Minister of Health is responsible for the patented medicine pricing provisions of the Patent Act, and this role must be taken seriously as set out in the Patent Act under subsection 96(5). That section says that the PMPRB must consult with various parties, including the Minister of Health, before the issuance of any guidelines.

That's why that letter was sent, in support of and in compliance with the obligation that the act imposes on the federal health ministry.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

An earlier question seemed to imply that Canada is unprepared for a future influenza outbreak. Through my role as the parliamentary secretary for health, I've met with stakeholders, including Seqirus, an organization with a partnership in the United States that procures, manufactures and provides vaccines in the many millions and millions of doses for Canadians, Americans and other people around the country.

Mr. Minister, do you feel that we are prepared for any future flu outbreak or outbreak that would require such vaccines?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

COVID-19 taught us many different things, including the fact that we were not as well prepared as we should have been to fight that pandemic. That's why we are preparing better for the next pandemic, because there will be a new pandemic. It's not “if”; it is “when”.

That's why we have put into place all sorts of measures, including changes in clinical trial funds to expedite and facilitate the use of clinical trials to test new drugs. That's why we have allowed rolling submissions for the assessment of drugs, again through the important regulatory improvements that were made during COVID-19. That's why we're investing in the National Research Council and the strategic science fund. That's why we're investing in a pharmacare pilot with Prince Edward Island. That's why we're investing in Moderna, Sanofi, AstraZeneca and many many other production, biomanufacturing, and research and development places and environments in Canada.

A lot of different things are moving on. We need to do that because, as you just said, there's a risk that all sorts of pandemics and epidemics, including influenza, may occur in the future.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. van Koeverden.

It's now the Bloc Québecois' turn.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister.

In an organization chart published in the PMPRB's annual report, all the lines of communication and each person's responsibilities are shown.

In your term as minister, have you ever intervened directly with, or put pressure on, the organization's executive director?