Health Committee on April 27th, 2023

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Minister, you've been the minister for the last three years, if I'm not mistaken, or maybe longer. Can you please name one or two incidents in which an effort was made by you and your department to make sure that we get the best value for the dollar as far as medicine costs go?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Well, I can speak for quite a few minutes on that.

I mentioned earlier the drugs for rare diseases strategy, which we announced just a few weeks ago, a $1.5-billion investment over the next three years. This is going to give Canadians with rare diseases—including thousands and tens of thousands of children, their caregivers, their families—access to those essential drugs that can be life-saving and can certainly help them to live a life that is as normal as possible.

That is not mentioning the Canadian drug agency that we are setting up, which is going to bring prices down through a national formulary, through bulk purchasing—

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

I want just one high-cost item. Would you be able to name just one that we made an improvement on and reduced the cost of the drug?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I can give you all sorts of examples.

Again, the drugs for the rare disease strategy—

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

I just want one, if you can name one for me, please.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Let me speak to.... Unfortunately, there won't be enough time.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The deputy minister, who is—

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have 30 seconds.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Just one.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

As the minister indicated, the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board addresses excessive prices, and their findings and actions are matters of public record.

The pan-Canadian Pricing Alliance, which was originated by the provinces and territories, and in which the federal government participates through our drug plans, does negotiate the prices of drugs. For example, they have a framework for the prices of generic drugs as well as specific patented drugs, for which over $3 billion of savings have been achieved to date—

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Just one—just name one, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That's all the time.

Ms. Sidhu, you have five minutes, please.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister and officials, for joining us for a very important study.

Minister, I want to start by giving you an opportunity to give an overview of why it's important for the PMPRB to get those guidelines right. We know they're so important for Canadians.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, MP Sidhu.

I would like to start by again mentioning the very important work you are doing in the fight against diabetes. We were asked just a moment ago how we are able to access available and affordable drugs to treat diabetes and eventually to cure diabetes. Through the framework that you helped develop, we're going to get there faster and better. This is a condition that impacts millions of Canadians, not to mention their caregivers, families, spouses and friends. Thank you for pointing to that.

I point to the PMPRB as one of the key agents that are going to be able to help increasingly, through the dollars and partnerships we're putting into place with lots of stakeholders. I have been visiting hospitals, research organizations and university labs over the last few weeks and months. I've seen the vast quantities of drugs that they're going to be able to develop, in part through artificial intelligence, linking biological treatments to the ability of cells to evolve and be cured, and genetic treatments that are increasingly being developed. That's thanks in part to the work and investments that we're making through Health Canada.

This is promising, but it needs continuing support. This is not an environment that we can take for granted. We're in competition with many other researchers, companies and countries outside of Canada.

Again, the fortunate thing is that technological and medical advancements are extremely promising. We can be proud of the hard work of loads of researchers in Canada.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

One concern that some stakeholders have communicated is about striking a balance in regulations so that Canada remains an attractive country in which to conduct research and development. Could you talk a bit about how you are supporting pharmaceutical innovation in Canada and ensuring that Canadians have access to the drugs they need?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's very good.

I'm not sure, Deputy Minister, if you're prepared to be even more explicit than I would be.

One example is having a more agile regulatory world. During COVID-19, we were able to streamline the regulations for drug approvals and clinical trials. We've been able to work with companies that are now investing strongly in Canada to invest even more in research and development. That is absolutely essential to reduce the cost and increase the availability of drugs. As you said, it's a balance. We need the two. We need drugs to be affordable, but we also need drugs to be developed and accessible to those who need them.

Through the strategic fund for innovation and the strategic fund for sciences, we're making parallel and incremental investments in the value of science and, equally importantly, in the importance of scientists in building a world, society and country in which people have access to not only the drugs of now but also the drugs of the future.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will cede the rest of my time to MP van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, MP Sidhu.

The previous questioners were asking for examples of when the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board as well as the pan-Canadian Pharmaceutical Alliance were able to provide lower prices to Canadians. I think most MPs would recall a period of time in which we were all advocating for Trikafta, a cystic fibrosis drug, which is now available to Canadians at a fair cost because of the process that it went through.

In my riding, I have a young guy named Liam, who is getting stronger and stronger by the day. He's an incredible young man. He's an author. He's an advocate for those living with cystic fibrosis. That pan-Canadian Pharmaceutical Alliance was responsible for negotiating prices on—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. van Koeverden, please get to the question, because we're almost out of time. We want to make sure they have some time for a response.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I will. I wanted to provide either Mr. Lucas or Minister Duclos with an opportunity to elaborate more on why it's so important for the PMPRB to get the regulations right for Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Respond briefly, please, Minister.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's why we need and want to understand the broad context in which drug pricing and accessibility operate. The pan-Canadian Pharmaceutical Alliance is key when it comes to speaking about the specific pricing and accessibility of drugs in specific provinces and territories.

The PMPRB is a pricing regulatory board, so it deals with the pricing of patented drugs. However, when those regulations are made, then the drugs and the treatments need to go through CADTH and pCPA. Eventually, they can be used by clinical specialists and patients.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.