Evidence of meeting #64 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pmprb.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
In the letter you posted in LinkedIn on March 3, explaining why you resigned from the board, you described the PMPRB's consultations on new guidelines as a “dialogue of the deaf”. Is that correct?
12:35 p.m.
NDP
12:35 p.m.
Full Professor, As an Individual
Consultations are needed with all the stakeholders, not just those from the pharmaceutical industry.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
We have a little bit of what I would call a Mexican standoff here.
Subsection 96(5) of the Patent Act says,
Before the Board issues any guidelines, it shall consult with the Minister....
Then section 102 of the act says,
The Minister may at any time convene a meeting of the following persons:
(a) the Chairperson and such members of the Board as the Chairperson may designate;
You have testified that you were waiting for the minister to invite you. Is that correct?
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
The minister says that he didn't think it was appropriate to contact you. Did you hear that testimony?
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
It seems a little bit hard to figure out how such a consultation will occur when the two people who have to consult don't think that either of them can talk to the other.
The confusing part is that in your letter of March 3—these are your words—PMPRB staff failed to follow up on my request to meet with the Minister of Health, “despite my insistence”.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I thought you said that you were waiting for the minister to invite you, but your letter says that you were trying to meet with the minister.
Can you explain that?
12:40 p.m.
Full Professor, As an Individual
So I'm expecting as much time as it took you to ask me the question. Thank you.
I'll explain the situation.
The rule said that I couldn't meet with the minister. I was told that my position was equivalent to that of a deputy minister reporting to a minister and that I had to wait to be called by the minister to meet him. It wasn't necessarily linked to the consultation period. When I realized that there was a communications problem between Health Canada and the PMPRB, I wanted to get in touch with the minister to re-establish a dialogue. I asked to meet the minister, but was told that I was not following the proper reporting structure.
12:40 p.m.
Full Professor, As an Individual
I will conclude.
I asked to meet him. I didn't get a reply.
I officially asked to meet the minister in connection with his letter of November 28, 2022. You'll see my request in the letter of November 30, 2022 that was addressed to him. This led to a meeting on November30, 2022, not with the minister, but with Mr. Lucas, the Deputy Minister of Health Canada.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I don't want to stop you, but I think that's enough time.
Minister Duclos' spokesperson, Guillaume Bertrand, told reporters in an email statement “that the minister never received a formal invitation to be briefed on PMPRB activities by the PMPRB...chair.”
If you wanted a meeting and the statute requires you to consult with him before the guidelines go forward, and you're the chair of the board and you report directly to him, why didn't you simply send him a formal request to meet?
12:40 p.m.
Full Professor, As an Individual
I made the request internally, but it wasn't followed up.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Okay.
In your letter, you stated that not extending the consultation period entailed risks that you personally did not want to take as acting chair of the PMPRB, including withdrawal and/or non-marketing of medicine or, in the future, vaccines in a pandemic.
Did you ever hear of any direct or implied threat from the pharmaceutical industry, its representatives or its lobbyists that proceeding with PMPRB reform might jeopardize pandemic vaccine availability for Canadians?
12:40 p.m.
Full Professor, As an Individual
Do you want to know whether I received threats directly or if I had heard about any?