Health Committee on Dec. 4th, 2023

[Jennifer Saxe]

I think that's exactly why, with this renewed strategy, we are looking at integrated action. We are working with our partners at Infrastructure on how we can better collaborate in terms of making sure there are housing supports as well. It's not just the health supports. We are working with Indigenous Services Canada and making sure that we can scale up our actions and that we can have integrated action. I think, with the renewed strategy, there are funds that have been allocated through budget 2023. They are clearly there.

Then in terms of timelines, we've taken specific calls for proposals for the SUAP. Maybe I can turn it over to Shannon now to speak a little bit about the prevention actions—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I'm sorry, Ms. Saxe, but we're well past time.

We're going to move now, I believe, to Mr. Majumdar for five minutes.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Thank you for being here.

I want to pick up on some of the questions my colleagues had earlier, so I'll get to the point.

How many minutes do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have five minutes.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

That's great.

In September, you received letters. In October, you received letters from leading clinicians. Why are you not meeting with them?

[Jennifer Saxe]

We're meeting with a range of experts—

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

That's except people who are proactively reaching out to you about dealing with opioid addictions.

[Jennifer Saxe]

We are interested in meeting with a range of experts with a range of different views, to understand those and to make sure that our actions, moving forward, can be grounded in data and evidence and that we have a better sense of how to inform this moving forward.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you for the answer, but you're still not answering why you intentionally decided not to meet with these ones.

[Jennifer Saxe]

We are happy to meet with a range of people and experts with differing perspectives.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Perhaps you are, but are those the ones you agree with and who reinforce your thesis or the ones who have a constructive critical perspective that might be acted upon?

[Jennifer Saxe]

All views are important for us to consider.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

That's except for these people who have reached out to you multiple times and you haven't taken the time to meet them.

[Jennifer Saxe]

We've met, and will continue to meet, with people who have a range of different perspectives—

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

You haven't met with these ones. They haven't even heard from your office.

I don't mean to come after you specifically. It's the minister, as well, whom the letter was addressed to, who hasn't been reaching out or responding to this. I'm frustrated, because I have to ask the question. Would you, as a professional, agree with these leading clinicians that a whole new group of people are becoming addicted as a result of this failed policy of unsafe supply? Would you agree that this is a possibility?

[Jennifer Saxe]

We are hearing a range of concerns and issues. That is one of the concerns we are hearing. That's why we are taking a number of actions, including looking at and re-reviewing the diversion prevention and risk mitigation protocols of different programs. It's why we're engaging with a range of experts with a range of views, to better understand the data and evidence to inform our actions moving forward, and it's why we're doing evaluations.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

That's the same answer you've provided for a lot of my colleagues already.

I want to take up Mr. Hanley's perspective on actually just getting to some facts here. Would you agree that it's in the realm of the possible that this policy is creating a whole new class of addicted people?

[Jennifer Saxe]

You're asking me a hypothetical question. What I'm saying is that we are looking at—

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

It's not a hypothetical question. It's about whether this falls into the range of inputs and evidence you're considering, or whether it is not being considered to be evidence.

[Jennifer Saxe]

We absolutely take the concerns that we are hearing seriously, and that's why we are taking the range of actions that I have mentioned.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Let me ask this. How many Canadians have died of opioid overdose since Health Canada started funding unsafe supply sites in 2020? That's a simple question. It's a policy that started in 2020. How many people have died as a result of this policy?

[Jennifer Saxe]

We have information on opioid toxicity deaths across Canada. As we know, there are a range of actions that are being taken by the federal government, by the provinces and territories and by community groups to reduce and address the—

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

I can tell you the number, which should be carved into the desk of every person working on this, from the minister's office down to the analyst. It's 23,823 Canadians who have died from a policy that has not even been proven, through experiment or otherwise, to be effective. It's been dangerously ramrodded, as a matter of ideology, onto Canadians, and now we have a national crisis that, as my NDP colleague has said, the government won't even admit is a national crisis.

[Jennifer Saxe]

We've taken a range of actions, which include prevention, harm reduction, treatment, and enforcement actions. There has been a range of actions taken over that time in co-operation with others. I think we all see that there continues to be a crisis and that we absolutely need to take action, so that's why we're looking at how we scale up where there is strong evidence, promising practices, and promising community-based actions, trying some innovative actions as well.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Let me ask about what Mr. Hanley presented earlier.

I'm not trying to create gotcha moments or to catch you off-script here.

Do you professionally think that this has been working?