Health Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Hanley.

Minister, thank you again for making it clear today that safe supply saves lives.

A father in my community, Dale, recently wrote me about his daughter Kaela, who very sadly died an overdose death from poisoned drugs last April. He says in his letter that “had she had access to a safe supply, she would very likely be alive today”.

I would like to share this letter with you, Minister. As you know, this is not an anecdote. It's what 130 experts on substance use wrote to you about in December, noting the 15 peer-reviewed research studies and five program evaluations that back this up, as documented by the Ontario Drug Policy Research Network. This is the reality of the peer-reviewed research that we have.

I appreciate what you have shared already this morning at a time when the safe supply contracts that are currently in place, including with Sanguen Health Centre in my community, are set to expire in March.

Can you confirm that Health Canada officials will not be swayed by any disinformation on safe supply, and will continue and even increase funding to safe supply through the substance use and addictions program?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Could we have a brief answer, please, Minister? We're out of time.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

We are fully committed to a full suite of resources and tools to help those who struggle with substance use. A safer supply is one of those tools, and we will continue an evidence-based approach that is compassionate and meets people where they are to get them the help they need.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, at the start of the year, a new face joined the opioid epidemic in Quebec: that of Mathis Boivin, who was 15 years old.

I want to pay my full respects to Christian Boivin, who decided to use this tragedy to launch a message in the media. He called for a dialogue and advocated for destigmatizing drug use, as well as eliminating the prejudices and taboos surrounding it. He hopes this will open a dialogue between parents and children, and that they will be able to talk about it calmly.

I offer my thoughts and condolences to Mathis Boivin's family.

You talked about Minister Carmant and his program in Quebec. In fact, one of the last times you talked with my colleague, Luc Thériault, you said Quebec had an excellent mental health program. Therefore, since mental health is part of the issue of drug addiction, what are you waiting for to transfer the money Quebec is seeking in order to deploy it on the front lines?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

With regard to the $200 billion that the federal government committed to the provinces and territories in bilateral agreements, we are moving through the process of securing those agreements. Some have signed. Quebec is still in negotiations.

When it comes to mental health and substance use resources, $25 billion of that money is specifically dedicated. I am confident that Quebec, like all other provinces and territories, will conclude their agreements with us to ensure the good work they do continues.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That's what you're talking about, but what would really help, and what Quebec is asking for, is a significant increase in health transfers to cover 35% of the system's costs. We can come back to that.

There's also the fight against illegal drug imports. Border security needs to be tightened up. The last time you came here, you talked about an opioid targeting centre. Are you expecting to see results soon? Do you plan to collect evidence and take action based on information we get from the international community and law enforcement agencies? Tell us about the results. Are they meaningful?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

That is a question on which we are working directly with Public Safety Minister LeBlanc. Some of our conversations to date have also focused on the impact of precursors coming into Canada. This was part of my discussions with my counterpart when I was in Washington in November as well, and it has been raised in other forums. We are part of a number of collaborative groups.

I think Jenn Saxe can speak in more detail about the collaborative work we're doing cross-border with the United States to address enforcement and border measures.

Jenn—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I'm sorry, Minister Saks. We're going to Mr. Johns. I know you will be with us in the second hour and I expect you'll get a chance to expand on it then.

Mr. Johns, you have two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

My colleague just talked about mental health. You cited the commitment of $25 billion over 10 years—$2.5 billion a year—but you didn't talk about the fact that it's over four priority areas.

I did the math. You're falling short by $1.375 billion on your commitment of $4.5 billion over five years to deliver mental health. I talked to you about creating a direct fund to make up for that gap, given that we're in a crisis when it comes to mental health and post-COVID recovery. Are you considering looking at what I've talked to you about and delivering something in this budget?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

As I mentioned previously, we made a commitment to provinces and territories of $200 billion over 10 years. Mental health and substance use are key pillar priorities. As I said in my opening remarks, mental health services and substance use services need to be part of universal health care systems in each of their jurisdictions. This is what we're moving towards in these bilateral agreements. We don't have all of them in place yet.

In weighing out considerations of additional funding, we are encouraged by what we've seen so far in the agreements regarding the proposed investments that provinces and territories are making. As I mentioned, I am also meeting quarterly with my counterparts. I am pushing them to make those commitments with the budgets they're receiving.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

We're hoping that you're going to increase it, Minister.

The Tseshaht First Nation in my riding hosted the Alberni Valley toxic poison drug strategy yesterday. Calling for a whole-of-government approach is what you talked about. They need you at the table for resources and they need your government to do that in an urgent way. We talked about Portugal scaling up on safer supply from 250 people to 35,000 in two years. They engaged the military, but you still have not delivered a plan with a timeline to show that you're demonstrating a response to an emergency.

Minister, I want to introduce you to Theresa. Theresa is a 32-year old indigenous woman who has stabilized her substance use on safe supply. If SUAP funding for safe supply ends in two months, she doesn't know if the new life she has built will be ripped apart.

Minister, could you look Theresa in the eye and tell her that funding is ending and she will have to go back to sex work, unregulated street fentanyl, chaos, violence and criminality? Minister, might Theresa be one of the three out of 10 safe supply clients who will be dead in six months? Are you going to commit to extending that funding?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I have already said in my comments to Mr. Morrice and to you that we are committed.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Are you going to extend the funding for existing projects?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

We've contacted all of the existing programs that are expiring. It's my intention to renew those that have proper mitigation measures.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Can Theresa count on you?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Canadians can count on the federal government to ensure that it is providing every resource and tool available to save the lives of those who use substances.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

Thank you, Minister Saks.

Next we have Dr. Ellis, please, for five minutes.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, it's pretty clear what we've heard. You're okay giving fentanyl to kids without parental consent and you will not rule out the legalization of other drugs like cocaine.

Have you read the study from the British Medical Journal that talks about mitigation guidance for opioid and stimulant dispensations, which just came out in January?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

No, I have not read it.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Right. It's interesting, because my colleague Mr. Johns referenced it. Clearly, he presented a biased option, which, sadly, misuses the study and doesn't talk about the opioid agonist therapy, which exists inside the study but is not talked about inside the study.

We're firm believers on this side of the House that opioid agonist therapy and rehabilitation are the way to go. What we're having trouble with and what you've clearly failed to see are the difficulties associated with your so-called safe supply, an approach that is actually harming people.

The question is, when will you read this study and when will you take actual science and the criticisms of this paper into account when you're making your policies?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, we do actually have an expert in the room here on research, evidence and peer-reviewed reports. I'm going to turn it over to Dr. Sam Weiss, if I may, to answer Dr. Ellis.

[Dr. Samuel Weiss, Scientific Director, Institute of Neurosciences, Mental Health and Addiction, Canadian Institutes of Health Research]

Thank you very much.

The study in the British Medical Journal that has been referred to was published in January and was funded by the Canadian Institutes of Health Research. We're very proud of the important work—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Excuse me, sir. I realize that I asked the minister the question, but get to your point. I don't care who did it; I guess the question is, have you read it?

[Dr. Samuel Weiss]

Yes, I have—