Health Committee on Nov. 18th, 2025

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Madam Chair, on a point of order, the interpreters have not received the text of the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay. Thank you.

The motion was not received in English and French. Is that what you're suggesting, Madame Larouche?

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

The interpreters said they hadn't received the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right. I'll suspend until the due process is completed to receive the motion in both languages.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We will resume.

There is a motion on the floor. Now that the Bloc has received the full motion, it's open to debate. I will let the committee know that we have an extra three minutes past noon because we suspended for technical reasons. I've added the extra three minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Strauss.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Fundamentally, what's at the bottom of this concern we have with the visa trainees is that medical school—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, Mr. Strauss. Is this to the motion?

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

This is directly to the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The motion is about summonsing someone.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

It's a dean of a medical school—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

—because we're talking about medical trainees.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

The medical schools—

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

We've invited this woman three times to come to speak to this problem.

They are using public resources like ORs, ICUs, cardiac care centres and clinics. Instead of using those resources, which they clearly have the capacity to do, to train Canadians who trained abroad and want to come and serve Canada, they are taking money from a theocratic dictatorship with an extraordinarily problematic human rights record to train Saudi doctors who are going back to serve that theocratic dictatorship.

I want to know how much money medical schools are getting to do this, because they're leveraging public assets to then fill their own coffers. That's the concern. That's why we've asked nicely three times for this particular dean. We've asked the University of Toronto dean because they have the most Saudi trainees. They have the most visa trainees.

It directly pertains to the study we're doing, because this is a study about immigration and health care and how we can't seem to get immigrants who come to live here in Canada to practise medicine, but we're getting immigrants who come and go back to Saudi Arabia, to the tune of 1,000 a year. That's why we need answers from this person. We need to have her come to this committee and answer those questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Can we have a vote, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Madame Larouche is on the list. I'm sorry.

We will go to Madame Larouche and then Mr. Powlowski.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I'll be very brief, Madam Chair.

Basically, we are offering our support because we know that the University of Toronto faculty of medicine receives $100,000 per student admitted from Saudi Arabia, but those students then return to their country. They are taking the place of Canadian or international students who could settle here and work as doctors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Powlowski.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I'm against this motion.

In six years at the health committee, we once summonsed someone to come to a committee meeting. That was under COVID. It was a representative of the WHO, and I didn't particularly agree with it.

We have to be judicious when we use that power. It is a legal power, and there are consequences for the individuals in having to come here. We should only use that power when absolutely necessary.

In terms of this study, which I think is really important, I would far rather, if anything, use the power to summons the colleges of physicians and surgeons and the colleges of nurses—the ones who I think are more of a barrier here—than go down this rabbit hole with respect to the Saudis.

There's obviously a difference of opinions. In response to Dr. Strauss's earlier intervention, I see he has an argument to be made. He thinks the adverse effect of the Saudis outweighs the benefits of the Saudis. I personally feel otherwise. I feel that they're free labour.

If the colleges and the provinces want to train more Canadians and they don't have room for the Saudis as a result, that's a different matter. At the moment, if they're open positions and these people are helping doctors and are contributing by helping Canadians, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Anyhow, to go back to the original thing, I think this is a rabbit hole that the Conservatives want to go down for perhaps political reasons. I think that if we're going to use that power for anything, it should be to get the colleges to come here. Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Ms. Chi.

[Maggie Chi, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Further to Dr. Powlowski's point on summonsing, we have to use it very judiciously and carefully as a committee. I would actually suggest an amendment to the motion for the university to appear. Then we can say that if they don't, we have the power to summons. We should still make an attempt for them to appear, rather than summonsing right away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

We have an amendment on the table. Are there speakers to the amendment?

Mr. Mazier, please speak to the amendment.