Evidence of meeting #14 for Health in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spots.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Winnipeg West, MB
Thank you.
Is it fair to say that this funding these governments provide for these visa trainees helps to support all of the residents in your programs?
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
That would be very true, yes.
When we think about these visa trainees, not only are they supporting education, but they are essential at this time to the health care that is delivered across our hospitals in our Toronto Academic Health Science Network.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Winnipeg West, MB
All right. Thank you.
What would be the effect on your postgraduate programs at the University of Toronto if this program were to be cancelled and this funding were to suddenly disappear?
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
It would be a difficult situation.
We faced this in 2018 when some of the Saudi learners left us, and we had a reduced number of Saudi learners for a number of years.
We do have the reserves and the capacity to manage, but it would be difficult. We would also have to work with our hospital partners to ensure that there were enough health care professionals to backfill for the health care needs that were previously filled by these visa trainees.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Winnipeg West, MB
Thank you.
Having gone through a Royal College residency myself, as I believe Dr. Strauss across the way has, I'm very familiar with the workloads at night and sometimes having to be in two places at once, literally. When you don't have enough staff, of course, we've seen the outcomes when you don't have enough people to manage the problems.
Are these trainees contributing to patient care and patient safety in the hospitals?
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
They absolutely are. They also contribute to the education of the more junior residents, the medical students and the other health profession learners in our environment.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Winnipeg West, MB
Our latest federal government budget in 2025 involves some increased investments for increasing international talent.
Can you very briefly describe whether there's any strategy to take advantage of this funding?
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
Our president is very committed to working with the federal government. This is a huge opportunity, not just for the University of Toronto but also for all of Canada, to attract career scientists and post-doctoral and doctoral fellows to come to Canada and improve our ability to meet the needs of our communities for the future.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you.
I'm going to go to Madame Larouche from the Bloc Québécois.
Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Dr. Houston, are you on the French channel?
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
I don't have any interpretation.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Madam Chair, did anyone explain to the witness how to access the French channel before the meeting?
My time is being eaten up.
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
It's coming now.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Madam Chair, can you reset the clock, since there was a technical issue?
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you very much.
I'll begin my intervention, which will be for six minutes.
Dr. Houston, while answering one of my colleague's question, you talked about what happened in 2018.
In 2018, you lost about 800 medical trainees because of a diplomatic dispute between Canada and Saudi Arabia in 2018–2019. Students were at risk of not receiving their scholarships.
At the time, the Canadian Medical Association Journal wrote that what began as a symbiotic relationship may have led to a dangerous dependency, evolving now to the paradox of an understaffed program and unmatched trainees. It also said that Canada's health and education systems must never be vulnerable to the spontaneous decisions of a foreign government.
That's what happened in 2018-19. What was written in the Canadian Medical Association Journal is significant.
You even said that you unfortunately lost people in 2018. It's quite troubling to see how dependent Canada is.
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
You mentioned the number 800. It was a significantly lower number than that, because, again, it is not just Saudi Arabia. We had learners from Kuwait, the U.A.E., Bahrain, Oman and Qatar. It was a much smaller number of learners who left, and most of them have returned.
The year 2018 was a wake-up call for all of us. We recognized at that time the vulnerability of relying on this funding, and we have since ensured that, as needed and when needed, we will be able to continue to support our educational and academic programs.
As well, what we do have, should there be more provincial funding, is the capacity at this time and into the future to increase the number of residency positions that we could fill if funded by our provincial government.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Okay.
Earlier, you gave some figures on what these students bring. Your faculty has training agreements with Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. I'll come back to this later, but these countries are not necessarily known for upholding human rights.
You gave some figures, but I'd like to have an idea of percentages. What percentage of your residency program budget comes from agreements with those five countries?
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
Of the learners we have from these countries, approximately 40% are from Saudi Arabia, 30% are from Kuwait, 20% are from the U.A.E. and the remainder from the three other countries.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
My question was more about what percentage of your residency program budget comes from agreements with those countries.
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
I didn't get the question.
Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
It was previously, but I didn't get that question.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Okay.
I will suspend while we check out what's going on here.
We're back.
You haven't lost your time. We always stop the clock when anyone has a problem.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
I'm not looking for the percentage of students who came from each of those countries.
What I want to know is what percentage of your residency program budget comes from agreements with those countries?