Health Committee on Oct. 5th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

We'll go to Madam Konanz for three minutes. Please go ahead.

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a question for Ms. Donsky. First, I want to say that we know that natural health products are and have been regulated by Health Canada. I think we all agree on that.

I want to state that natural food stores and natural health stores are the anchor of many small towns and many small-town main streets, and many are owned by women. I know they are present in my rural riding in all the small communities, and owners tell me that they are struggling. They're competing with Amazon, for one, which has no regulation, as you know. My very rural riding has one of the longest borders with the United States in the country, with six border crossings. We're trying to prevent or not encourage cross-border shopping, whether it's by driving or through Amazon, where there's no regulation at all.

Rural ridings like mine also have very few doctors. We're struggling with being able to see a doctor, and the walk-in clinics are very scant, with just a couple in my entire riding, which is huge. If you are able to see a doctor, they're recommending natural health food products and they want you to shop locally, of course, so people are turning to their natural health food stores for help.

Ms. Donsky, you cited survey data showing that women speaking with health care providers about the symptoms of perimenopause and menopause found that supplements were among the most recommended treatments, with nearly half of women saying their health care provider had suggested them. Why do you think that is?

[Andrea Donsky]

I think it's because they work and they're another option to help women. As someone was saying earlier—I think it was Mr. Buckley—women are finding relief through using them. In many cases, they can use them to help them feel better. I think that's why. It's because they're seeing a difference in how they're feeling. It's because they work.

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Ms. Donsky, you said in your opening statement that you are a strong believer in regulation. Beyond just this bill, what do you think is the right method of regulation? What should that regulation be when it comes to this sector?

[Andrea Donsky]

I think we have it. I think we have strong regulation.

As I mentioned, we're selling our supplements in the U.S. They know we're from Canada, and right away they say we have the best regulations in the world. They look at us like it's amazing, and they trust us. I think we have it in place right now.

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

That's excellent. Thank you.

Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you. Time is up.

We'll go to Madam Jaczek for three minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

My first question is for Dr. Faisal.

During the course of this morning, we've heard a number of witnesses saying there is a relatively low risk with natural health products. However, you've given us the example of turmeric, where overingestion can be harmful. Both you and Ms. McVey have alluded to potential serious risks.

Should the consumer not be warned, through a mechanism such as labelling, of even these potential relatively low risks? Not everyone who goes to the pharmacy and picks up some natural health product consults the pharmacist. Do you not agree that the labelling provisions should be maintained?

[Dr. Sadaf Faisal]

Yes, we agree that there should be some regulatory provisions that allow Canadians to have the information they need to make an informed decision when they're choosing a product, in case there is no health care provider available to them to identify those issues.

Another important thing is that these products are relatively safe. There is still a risk. The most important thing is that sometimes these risks are not available before these products get to the public. That's what we are advocating. Postmarket surveillance is really important. If a really serious adverse effect is happening because of a natural product, there should be a regulatory authority to collect that data, analyze that data and also inform Canadians about that serious adverse effect.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you.

If the federal government can order the recall of unsafe food or consumer products, is there any reason it should not have the same authority to recall an unsafe natural health product?

[Dr. Sadaf Faisal]

I agree. I think it should have that authority to recall a product that can pose serious adverse effects for Canadians.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Mr. Chen alluded to the safety of water. Water is very carefully monitored, certainly in Ontario. It is monitored at source for water quality, given the tragedy at Walkerton many years ago, where a number of people became very ill. In Ontario, even surface water at beaches is regulated and obviously should not exceed 200 E. coli per 100 millilitres.

I wanted to make sure that Mr. Chen was aware of the regulation of water.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

We will now go to Ms. Gaudreau for one and a half to two minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I'll keep it simple, Ms. Faisal.

This brings me right back to the topic at hand regarding what we consume and the risks involved. The bottom line and key point is that we must make informed decisions. Obviously, when a woman is pregnant, she's advised to exercise caution. This is already regulated.

We're told to ask our doctor, and that's fine. Yet this morning, I just learned that turmeric can affect the liver. I'm thinking of people who have high blood pressure, who are in perimenopause or who have heart disease. We can't obtain all this information about dosage. I think that consumers must be well informed. It isn't enough to just have postmarket oversight, as you said. The same goes for water. I have water that comes directly from a well. I need to have it tested because it might contain E. coli. We know what that can do.

I gather that you fully agree that a safeguard should be in place. I know it might cost a bit more. I commend everyone who has already taken steps to protect people's health. These are the natural products available.

You're in favour of this bill, aren't you?

[Dr. Sadaf Faisal]

From a CPHA perspective, we want the bill not in the current form. We would like to make sure that natural health products are not excluded from the definition of therapeutic products.

When you remove them from the definition of therapeutic products, you are actually removing them from that additional layer of safety that was provided to them under Vanessa's Law. If there is any recall or any serious life-threatening injury or adverse effect, there should be a regulatory process such that it could be reported to Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

I will go to Mr. Calkins for three minutes.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Ponoka—Didsbury, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just quickly for Ms. Faisal, you're a pharmacist. You represent, through your association, numerous pharmacies across Canada. I am at the age where I frequent pharmacies a lot more than I used to. I walk right down the vitamin aisle when I go to get my prescriptions.

I've never seen a sign suggesting that anybody should have a conversation with a pharmacist if they happen to be buying a vitamin at the same time they're getting their prescription filled. Why isn't the pharmacy industry putting that advertisement up in the vitamin aisle?

[Dr. Sadaf Faisal]

Thank you so much.

I'm happy that you are going to your pharmacy.

Whenever pharmacists counsel patients on prescription medications, they always question them on whether they are using any non-prescription herbal, natural or other products. They are required by regulation from our colleges to make sure their medications are not interacting—

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Ponoka—Didsbury, AB]

I can buy turmeric at the grocery store. I don't need to buy it off the vitamin shelf. I can buy a grapefruit from the grocery store, and it'll interfere with the statin. You guys are clever enough to figure out how to counsel people in those kinds of situations. I'm not understanding what you need these powers for. Furthermore, all we need to do is add an amendment to Bill C-224 for recall power, which was added in the last Parliament under Bill C-368. I'm assuming that amendment will come again. It seems to solve all of your problems.

I'm not sure what it is that the pharmacists association is so upset about. Doctors seem to be able to figure these things out when they say to not take grapefruit when they prescribe the statin. The pharmacists can figure this out. I don't know what the actual problem is that you're trying to solve, but it sure does create a lot of headaches for the natural health product industry to have these extra layers of red tape and bureaucracy.

I'm going to turn my questions to Mr. Chen. Nobody's had a chance to ask him this question yet.

Mr. Chen, you have the traditional Chinese medicine experience. I think you're probably one of the foremost experts we have in Canada on traditional Chinese medicine. Based on the previous administration, when Bill C-368 was passed, you were very supportive of my bill then. You're still very supportive of my bill now.

There was the protocol that the Government of Canada had in place: the self-care framework. Could you explain to me what the threat was to the traditional Chinese medicine industry in Canada? Was it an existential threat to your industry?

[Pierre Chen]

It would destroy the whole industry. It's very common for importers to hold over 1,000 licences, but commonly we use about 400 or 500 of these products. Out of those 400 or 500, really, the other half is not used, but if we need it, and if there are patients who request it, they can have that licence and order it immediately. If there is that cost recovery and then all these requirements, people would just forfeit those licences, and that would destroy the industry. A lot of this has to do with the extra red tape that's required.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins.

We will go to Mr. Rana for three minutes.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the Canadian Pharmacists Association.

A 2021 review of Health Canada's natural health products program that was carried out by the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development concluded, “Health Canada's oversight of natural health products available for sale in Canada fell short of ensuring that products were safe and effective.” What in this bill addresses those findings, or does it simply remove the tools created in response to them?

[Dr. Sadaf Faisal]

Thank you so much for the question.

When we talk about these regulations, we are talking about what evidence is there. If there isn't enough evidence that these medications could be used, that's where pharmacists usually recommend. We are also talking about postmarket contamination: if there is any serious adverse effect that is being reported by consumers through their adverse reaction reporting form to Health Canada. Those are the really important things that need to be available to consumers before they make a decision.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

In your opinion, should mandatory reporting of serious adverse reactions by health care institutions continue for NHPs even if Vanessa's Law powers are removed? Why or why not?

[Dr. Sadaf Faisal]

Yes, they should, because these adverse effects need to be documented, and these adverse effects need to be communicated to Canadians, when they are using these products with a perception that these products are risk-free.