Health Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

The World Health Organization urges us to consider the ethics of this issue. I imagine that things were different in 1978 than they are today, but don't you have any issues with going to practise in Saudi Arabia and putting your skills to use for a regime that doesn't care about human rights?

You could have chosen to practise elsewhere, where human rights are respected. Why did you choose to leave Canada to go to Saudi Arabia? I thought I understood that it was because you had financial benefits that you didn't have elsewhere. Am I wrong?

[Andrew Padmos]

Well, I think you're mistaken in saying that I left because of the monetary benefits, which were neither extreme nor continuously advantageous. I could have had, and was having, a very promising career here in Canada, so it wasn't really a choice between less and more; it was a choice of where.

As I said, we initially, as a family, went for two years—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Dr. Padmos, can you wrap up, please? We're out of time. Thank you.

[Andrew Padmos]

—and were happy to have the experience to stay there longer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I will go to the Conservatives for five minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Bailey.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Dr. Padmos, am I correct that Saudi training is a source of revenue for universities?

[Andrew Padmos]

That's correct.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

You would have lived in a compound while you were in Saudi Arabia. Did you not see the human rights violations that were going on around you in the hospital setting?

[Andrew Padmos]

I'm not sure which specific type of human rights violation you might be referring to.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

I mean any, or were you just totally naive to them?

[Andrew Padmos]

No, I wouldn't say naive. We were open. We accepted any patient in my area with a malignancy. The hospital specialized in that area, so the socio-economic strata were certainly mixed and even.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Dr. Rao, I want to get a better understanding of your fee-for-service payment. It's a mix. It's a blend.

Do you have good faith billing in Ontario?

When an individual comes from another country and they're severely injured and you automatically just treat them, would the province pay you, even though they don't have medical insurance? Is there good faith billing?

[Sandra Rao]

Do you mean patients who have no insurance, or patients covered by OHIP?

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

That's correct. Somebody presents in the emergency room with no coverage, and you treat them. Is there such a thing as good faith billing?

[Sandra Rao]

We would treat them unconditionally. In terms of the government reimbursing us if the patient does not pay, no, that does not exist.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Thank you.

In Alberta, they've just reinstated good faith, because a lot of the physicians were at the point where it was up to $30,000 to $40,000 per physician in the emergency departments and for specialists, and they were not being paid.

What type of data is collected when the patient comes in? Are you familiar with their Ontario health number that shows that they don't have coverage? Do you know if they are...? Is their citizenship data or any type of data collected or presented to you as you're seeing that patient?

[Sandra Rao]

For any patient coming in, I would be able to see what type of health insurance they have, whether it's OHIP, private insurance or no insurance at all. I personally would not have any access to their citizenship status to know whether they are a permanent resident or a citizen or a temporary worker. It would just be their health coverage.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

When it comes to uninsured patients, as you said, you treat them in the emergency room. Are you familiar with what happens with them when they get up to the ward and who would offer them services? Have you ever encountered this?

[Sandra Rao]

While they are on the ward, they continue to be treated by in-patient physicians who, I believe, would individually bill them at their own discretion.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

They would individually bill them. Okay.

[Sandra Rao]

That's correct.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Do you think it's fair that provinces are having to bear the health care burden for an increased population, without consultation, because of the unprecedented increase in federal immigration policy numbers?

[Sandra Rao]

No, I do not believe that is fair.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Would a standardized national licensure system for health care professionals be a net benefit to Canadian health care?

[Sandra Rao]

Yes, it would.