Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Sept. 28th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll begin the meeting.

Members, I want to remind you that today we are having a video conference from Vancouver, British Columbia. Because of that, I have been asked to advise members that we need to speak a little more slowly and perhaps a little more clearly than we are used to doing at some of our other meetings. Thank you for that.

I want to remind members as well that this meeting is being held in public. We will start with a brief introduction from our guest this morning, followed by five-minute rounds of questioning. We will continue to do those rounds in the usual format with the official opposition, the Liberals, then the Conservative Party, the Bloc, and the NDP, and then begin the second round.

The purpose of this meeting is to continue our consideration of Bill C-16, an act to amend the Canada Elections Act for fixed election dates.

Our witness this morning is Ms. Linda Johnson, Deputy Chief Electoral Officer for the Province of British Columbia. As members know, Ms. Johnson was asked to present for this committee as British Columbia is the only province to have gone through the entire process under the fixed election date format.

We certainly appreciate very much your appearance this morning, Ms. Johnson. We all realize that you had to get up a lot earlier than we did for this meeting, and we appreciate that very much.

I will turn the meeting over to you now for your statement, for whatever you would like to say to the committee, and then we will open for questions.

[Linda Johnson, Deputy Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman—and my appreciation to the committee for allowing me to appear before you via video conference. It's a great convenience to me and is much appreciated.

I want to begin by setting a bit of context around British Columbia.

In our elections in B.C., we use a 28-day election calendar. We have 39 registered political parties in British Columbia at the present time, so our political environment is a little different. Our general elections are to fill 79 seats in our provincial legislature.

When fixed election dates were brought to B.C., they came with mixed expectations and concerns, and I want to speak to those. There were expectations that fixed election dates would greatly ease the administration of elections—that is true. There were expectations that fixed election dates would save money in the administration of elections. That is true, but they don't save a lot of money. There were also concerns that by merely amending the B.C. Constitution Act and not making changes to provisions in the Election Act regarding campaign financing, there would be abuses of campaign spending rules. Those did not materialize.

That is my brief summary.

What happened in British Columbia with fixed dates is that they allowed us to plan better. We were able to rent our district electoral offices earlier. We were able to negotiate better financial arrangements with suppliers for equipment, because we could tell them when we needed it. We were able to secure better voting places, because we were able to advise the lessors of exactly when we required those spaces. We were able to recruit better staff by having certainty on when election officials would be required, which allowed us to do more thoughtful screening of applicants and to apply the merit principle in recruitment. I think the public was better served by the quality of both the voting places and the officials who served them.

We were able to do a lot of our administrative infrastructure upfront, and we knew well in advance of the election when things as simple as payroll cutoff dates would be. When you're paying 30,000 temporary employees during a provincial general election, that in itself is greatly beneficial. We were able to pack and prepare our warehouse in a reasonable scheduled time and to ship material out by less expensive means, because we had the knowledge of when the material was required; therefore, there were no late deliveries or emergency shipments.

Where we saw some of our greatest savings was in the area of advertising. Having the certainty of a fixed date allowed us to book television space well in advance of the event, and we saved significantly on the television advertising. We also saved some money on booking radio spots well in advance as well. So there were savings in advertising, which is a significant cost during the general election.

What fixed dates don't change is human behaviour. In the 2005 general election, we had 412 candidates. Almost 10% of those candidates waited until the last day of nominations to file their nomination papers, even though they had known, literally, for years when the election would be called. So human nature did not change with the fixed election dates.

We were pleased to be able to tell our returning electoral officers exactly when we would be requiring their services. It resulted in less attrition...[Technical difficulty—Editor]...to train the district electoral officers in a more thoughtful way over a period of time.

We also received a lot of advance interest from individuals who wanted to work in district electoral offices. Election officials again had knowledge of when they would be required, and we were able to more thoughtfully approach our staffing of those offices.

Because we were able to secure our advance voting locations well in advance, we were...[Technical difficulty—Editor]...the addresses of those locations on the where-to-vote cards...[Technical difficulty—Editor]...in the general election.

I believe in part due to that addition on the where-to-vote cards, our turnout at advanced voting increased 82% in our last election. Voter turnout in the 2005 election went up overall, albeit marginally. It's the first time we've seen an increase in turnout over a long time...Technical difficulty—Editor...and we were very pleased with that.

The public...[Technical difficulty—Editor]...election was going to be, and we're rather impatient for it to get under way. We had a number of voters requesting mail-in packages before the writs were issued. Something we need to make clear to the public is that we don't issue ballots until the writs are issued, whether we know the date in advance or not.

I mentioned earlier that there had been some concerns about the effect of fixed dates on the political financing framework. We did not see any abuses in the 2005 election. The parties spent a little more, and they also took in a little more in contributions. There were more third-party advertisers in our last election; however, the number of third-party advertisers seems to fluctuate in B.C., from one election to the next, depending on the issues that are relevant at the time.

Overall I would advise the committee that I think fixed election dates are of great value to voters and certainly to the electoral administration bodies. It brings efficiencies and the opportunity for improved effectiveness and better service.

There are minor savings, which is fine. It certainly doesn't save a lot of money, as I said, because most of the money spent in a general election is on salaries and those are unchanged whether you have a fixed date or not.

It doesn't change human behaviour; it didn't encourage all the candidates to register their nominations early on. But overall...[Technical difficulty—Editor]...was of great benefit, and I certainly am a believer.

That concludes my remarks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Ms. Johnson, I would note that we are temporarily losing a bit of the video feed periodically. I suspect you may find the same problem at your end. It appears to kick in at times.

The audio seems to be better, but we will speak slowly and clearly. If you have any difficulty with a question, please feel free to ask the member to repeat the question.

[Linda Johnson]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

My pleasure.

Do you need us to use interpretation?

[Linda Johnson]

Yes, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Okay. Are we prepared for that? I'm getting a nod that we are prepared, so we're ready to go to our first round of questions.

Mr. Owen, please.

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Johnson, for joining us from supernatural, beautiful British Columbia. Your experience is particularly relevant and important to us, of course, being the first jurisdiction in Canada to not only put fixed election dates into legislation but to also have experienced an election under those conditions.

I was a little disappointed to hear you acknowledge that fixed election dates haven't changed human nature. We had higher hopes for that here, however it may be.

The proposed legislation that we're considering contains a reference to the powers of the Governor General. It specifically states that nothing in this legislation will alter the powers of the Governor General, including the Governor General's discretion to dissolve Parliament for the purpose of an election. It's become an issue of some discussion for us as to what the impact of that is.

Does the British Columbia legislation contains a similar provision with respect to the powers of the Lieutenant Governor?

[Linda Johnson]

The provincial legislation does not have an impact on the discretionary powers of the Lieutenant Governor.

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Did it say that specifically, or is that simply the interpretation that is given to the legislation?

[Linda Johnson]

I believe it's explicit.

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Has there been any discussion, which we sometimes hear, with respect to fixed election dates? Maybe this relates to your comment about human nature. There is the spectre of a fixed election date either causing a government to be a lame duck during the year before the fixed date, or that the political activity will start earlier, knowing the fixed date, and therefore be a distraction to the work of Parliament or the legislature. Has that been an experience one way or the other in British Columbia?

[Linda Johnson]

I'm sorry, I've lost a lot of your question. If you're asking if my impression is that fixed dates affected the effectiveness of government in the lead-up to the election, I would have to qualify this somewhat. The previous three elections in British Columbia all went to the very end of a five-year mandate. So it was customary in B.C., in the months leading up to an election, for the members to be somewhat distracted by the upcoming election. So I didn't see any difference with a fixed date. It was the same effect because we had had these full-term elections previously. Certainly in the year leading up to the election I did not note any difference in the behaviour by the political parties.

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you, Ms. Johnson.

Our next questioner is Mr. Hill, please.

[Jay Hill, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Johnson, for appearing, albeit by video conference this morning. I just echo the chairman's remarks in the sense that I'm well aware of the time difference. Prince George—Peace River is my riding in northern British Columbia, and like Mr. Owen, we're reminded on a weekly basis sometimes. So we appreciate your taking the time.

Being a British Columbia resident and a strong supporter of fixed election dates, I would agree with your overall summary that you shared with us in your opening remarks. I'm a little disappointed with your remarks that despite all the things you've listed--and I won't go through the same list again--the savings were only minor, was the term you used. When you alluded to substantial advertising savings and things like that, the certainty for staffing, the efficiencies you alluded to, and you had a long list there, I wonder why the savings would be only minor.

[Linda Johnson]

I would say they were minor in the whole context of election costs. We saved over a million dollars in advertising expenses in the 2005 election.

We're also consciously trying to contain costs of the...[Technical difficulty--Editor]...election in 2005 in B.C. cost about the same as the election in 2001 in straight dollars. So we were pleased that we were able to hold the cost of the election, but in the context of about $23 million that the election cost, I would put the savings resulting from a fixed-date election at perhaps $2 million.

[Jay Hill, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

I have another question, and I'll see if some of my Conservative colleagues would like to pose a question as well.

You referred to the fact that although advance polls were up by 82%--in other words, perhaps because of the greater forewarning or foreknowledge of when the polls would be, people obviously took advantage of that--the overall voter turnout was only up marginally.

I don't want to belittle that. We've struggled at the federal level as well with low voter turnout. This is one of the things that we're hoping perhaps fixed election dates will help. Perhaps you could add a little more on that, on why you feel that it only marginally increased.

[Linda Johnson]

Overall, turnout in our election increased 3%, so certainly all those people who showed up to vote at advanced voting weren't new voters to us. They were simply voting at a different time. But the 3% I think is significant.

Now, Elections B.C. did very extensive outreach and promotion of voting in the lead-up to the election, so it's difficult to determine whether this was the result of those efforts or a consequence of having a fixed date. We aren't able to discern that. But certainly having the fixed date allowed us to plan our promotion more effectively and to buy good times on television and radio to maximize exposure to the public as to when and where the voting would occur.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

One minute.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Ms. Johnson, thank you very much for your comments. I appreciated them very much.

I have one observation, and then I have one question.

My observation is with respect to voter turnout. We'll have to get a report from you in future years, I suppose, but in subsequent elections, I would hope that voter turnout would increase as people become more and more acclimatized to the routine of a fixed election date. I know in the United States and other jurisdictions that have fixed elections, everyone knows that on a certain day, for example every four years, there will be a presidential election. I think this will help.

My question to you specifically, however, is that you mentioned all of the great benefits of fixed election dates, but are there any changes that you would suggest or recommend to your legislation and to the legislation we're contemplating to improve what you've already enacted?

Are there any obvious improvements that could be added to your legislation that might assist us?

[Linda Johnson]

The one change that I think would be beneficial to Elections B.C. in the context of fixed dates is that we should shorten the nomination period. We have a very tight calendar in British Columbia, only 28 days, and shortening the nomination period somewhat, given that the candidates have full knowledge well in advance of when the election will be, would allow Elections British Columbia more time to prepare the ballots and the list of candidates and distribute them during the election calendar. The fact that 10% of our candidates waited until the last...[Technical Difficulty--Editor].... This is human behaviour rather than having difficulty navigating the nomination process. [Technical Difficulty--Editor]...effect on the number of candidates.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you. That is the end of that round.

We're going to move now, please, to Monsieur Guimond.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You will have a chance to practice your…

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

May I just remind you, Monsieur Guimond, to speak slowly so that we can have the interpretation. We are having some feed difficulties, so that would be very kind.

Thank you.