Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 31st, 2007

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I've used my contribution limit as a guarantee....

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

The answer is no. Right now, the way the draft bill is structured, if a person paid back the loan in the same year it was made, they wouldn't then recapture that $1,100 as a potential contribution. You may wish to.... It's certainly not our intention to try to keep somebody from being able to be made whole.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I really see it seldom happening that way, but it's—

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

It's a possibility. You may wish to consider amendments that would have the effect of allowing them to go back up to their $1,100 contribution.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

That's all I have.

Mr. Reid, do you want to take the rest of my time?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I wasn't going to say it, but I'll just ask the obvious question here. Madam Redman has expressed that there's a concern with female candidates being unable to access funds. This is more of an editorial comment than anything else: it wasn't my experience when I was trying to raise money for the Stephen Harper leadership campaign against Belinda Stronach.

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

That's a big exception.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Yes. The key rule seems to be having wealthy relatives.

At any rate, it strikes me that what effectively is happening is that by equalizing the capacity to get loans for various candidates in an actual race for a seat—you have a female from one party and a male for another party—they're both likely to get enough of a percentage of the vote to get a return of their.... Effectively the playing field would be levelled in a way that has not existed previously, vis-à-vis those candidates in that particular situation—not perhaps all of the situations, but in that one situation.

Would that not be correct?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

You're absolutely right that it's correct.

I'm going to make another observation here. Again, this is more anecdotal; this is just me, going through a lot of returns, and not an actual numerical analysis. I think you would find that generally speaking the candidates who have engaged in taking loans to run their campaigns come from wealthier communities, wealthier ridings. They tend to be wealthier individuals themselves, and I think that's a reflection of this. People who come from constituencies of more modest income or who are financially challenged are much less likely to be engaging in the behaviour of taking out loans for their campaigns—the big loans from a wealthy individual: the $45,000 from somebody, or whatever. That just doesn't happen as much.

I think that's anecdotal evidence for the proposition you just made, that this levels the playing field and puts everybody in the same position. When I talk about the loans they take out right now, those are loans primarily from individuals: wealthy benefactors, family members, and so on. The bank loans tend to be at a more consistent level across the board.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

There are very few seconds left in that questioning, so I'm going to move to Mr. Guimond.

You have five minutes.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It seems to me that with this bill, the government is reacting to a specific event. I will not mince words here, I am going to speak to you frankly. With the exception of the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada, is there really a problem that justifies the tabling of Bill C-54?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I think the Liberal leadership and the loans that occurred there heightened the public perception that something needed to be done, certainly if people looked and saw many millions of dollars from wealthy individuals. I don't think the fundamental problem we're addressing, though, arose because of that. I think it existed before, and it continues to exist.

I really don't think it's a partisan issue. If you go through those financial returns, as I said, the NDP doesn't take out many loans, but I think Conservatives do just as often as Liberals, for example, at the riding level. They will be affected similarly, both parties, so I don't view it as a partisan issue.

I think you're right that this had a lot to do with some of the public concern, at least in terms of heightening some of the public appetite for this. Certainly Mr. Martin was able to capitalize on some of that in drawing attention to the problem. But the problem, or the need for this action—because there was an inconsistency in treatment between loans and contributions—was the case without that campaign.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I appreciate your candour. You say that this is something the public expects. I'm sure that means that you are prepared today to make a commitment that Mr. Harper will disclose the contributions he received when he ran for leader of the Conservative Party.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

As I think I indicated earlier, we're not seeking to have any kind of retroactive application of this law.

[An hon. member]

Why not?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

It's for the reasons I gave before. It would be fundamentally unfair to the Liberal leadership candidates, who relied upon a law that was in place at the time, to tell them they now have to comply with a different law after they acted in reliance with the previous legislation, which was in place when they made what are significant decisions.

Of course, in the case of Mr. Harper, he has complied with the laws. He has made full disclosure of his last leadership campaign—

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Really?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Yes, for the last leadership campaign, everything was disclosed, and he has no debt.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

How about the one before?

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chairman, since there is something for everyone, will the bill prevent children aged 8, 10 and 11 from getting loans, as happened in Mr. Volpe's campaign for leader of the Liberal Party? Will the bill prevent that from happening?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Well, those were contributions, not loans, I believe, but I don't believe it does address those.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I'm talking about a contribution made by an 8-year-old.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

We have not addressed that issue. They would be limited, however, to $1,100.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.