Evidence of meeting #58 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was loan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.
Let me begin where my colleague from the Bloc left off.
I am glad that Equal Voice is here, because I think that fundamental to the whole issue of women in politics is access to the system. And as I believe you mentioned, Raylene, one barrier to women being able to enter the system is that they can't compete on the same basis as men in terms of access to money and power. Would you agree that in fact those with access to large networks of wealth are more likely to get a nomination than those without, and that the system as we know it disproportionately favours men who have access to those large networks of wealth and power, and it favours those men over women who tend to go to family and friends and seek small donations and do grassroots networking in order to get the nomination?
National Chair, Equal Voice
That would be such a layered answer in the sense that part of what needs to be seen is numbers in terms of whether there are numbers out there talking about how much money men spend on nominations versus how much money women spend on nominations in elections. I don't have that data off the top of my head, but I can speak from the academic data that I have read, which clearly shows that women have a much harder time raising money at nominations. There are differences.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
So if we have a system that's actually based on money, the more money you have the more likely to get a nomination, it does constitute a barrier, so anything we can do to reduce that barrier would be important.
My next question is wouldn't it make sense then to do whatever we can, through legislation and regulations, to lower the amount of money required to enter the system, and therefore wouldn't you support the provision in this bill that lowers the limits of the loans required to the donation limit, which would help level the playing field to some extent for women? Would you at least support that part of the bill?
National Chair, Equal Voice
That is a question I will bring back to the board, and I can have an answer for you very clearly one day.
If I can add one more thing as well, the issue of the barriers for women in politics has been talked about for so long. I'm turning 40. It's been talked about since I was born, and at some point you have to recognize the fact that you have to be the ones who put your foot down and recognize that there are barriers for women and challenge yourselves in terms of what you're going to do. So if there are opportunities as you proceed in your discussions with the bill to recognize that you can help lower the barriers for women, I strongly encourage and support doing that.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
I appreciate that, and I think that's what we're trying to do with this bill, to at least acknowledge that it makes a difference, to some extent, in helping level the playing field.
I guess a more direct way to put the question is to ask who, under the present system, is more likely to benefit from a system that allows people to borrow $100,000? Do the Bob Raes or the Wajid Khans of the world fare better or worse than the Martha Hall Findlays of the world? Who manages to make their way through the system as it now exists? And do you not see, on that basis, the importance of at least supporting this bill as a step towards dealing with that situation?
I don't think we need a lot of data. We don't need a lot of study. We know that women are less economically well off than men. We know that it takes money to get into politics. So wouldn't it mean, by implication, that if we can reduce the financial barriers, then we can help women get into politics?
National Chair, Equal Voice
I am usually quite a direct-answer type of person. The only reason I'm hesitating here is that I hear what you're saying, but on the other hand, I do have to have the support of my board, which I didn't have an opportunity to consult on this.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Okay. Then just answer the question: Do you think, under the present system, the Bob Raes and the Wajid Khans of the world fare better than the Martha Hall Findlays?
National Chair, Equal Voice
There is strong academic data to date to show that men have greater advantages when it comes to addressing financial issues in running for nomination or as leadership candidates.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Let me go to the other issue raised, which has to do with banks and your determination to wait and to study what the banks have to say on how this legislation would work.
Don't we know enough already in terms of how the banks handle small business loans for women? We already know that women have a more difficult time. Wouldn't you agree that in fact women seeking bank loans to run for nominations would face at least as difficult a time, if not a worse time? Wouldn't anything we can do—without studying it further—to lower the amounts, to reduce those barriers, be an important step in the right direction?
National Chair, Equal Voice
Yes, and that's why I was asking the question in the sense of what the banks are saying. Have the banks appeared—
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
But we do know now, and you know now, as Equal Voice, the difficulty that women face in accessing small business loans. There's already discrimination and a barrier. So we know that. You have to logically assume that women seeking a nomination and going to a bank for a loan are going to receive the same kind of discriminatory response—and maybe even worse, because it will be seen as even less important in the eyes of these big banks.
There's a problem that we have to address, right? We don't need to wait any more, do we?
Let me go to Éric then.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
No, no, I'll wait for an answer. I'd be glad to wait for an answer. I just wanted to go to Éric afterward.
National Chair, Equal Voice
I understand that you want to know where Equal Voice stands on various positions. All I'm asking for from the committee is to give Equal Voice's board an opportunity. I don't believe in beating around the bush, and I won't. I give you my personal word on that.
Because we're a multi-partisan national organization, we have to be careful about how we proceed. I think everybody in the room can understand that. Right now we're going from an organization that has focused generally on under-representation in the election of women to one that is now being asked to comment on specifics.
I'm interested in having Equal Voice around for the long run. That's why I hesitate.... I'm trying to think of more formal language than “not blow it”. I don't mean to.... I'm sorry, I'm just treading carefully because I want to do it properly.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Fair enough. We appreciate that. Normally, though, when witnesses come before us on a bill, they have a position.
Executive Director, Equal Voice
Right. And we got a notice at four o'clock on Tuesday, saying “Can you come at eleven o'clock on Thursday?”, so—
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Fair enough. I appreciate that.
Éric, I know that you've been—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
You can, absolutely. I was just going to mention that we only have two names on our list. We now have three.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
We're going to move to our second round. We'll go to five-minute rounds, but we seem to have a lot of time.
I would just like to make the clarification that Equal Voice got notice last week, not on Tuesday.
Executive Director, Equal Voice
We got a notice on Tuesday at four o'clock, asking us to appear.