Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 11th, 2006

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

I think that makes some sense.

My other question is with regard to the committees and associations. Again, not having sat, or not having some historical perspective, I wonder, is that something that happens every year or is that just on a case-by-case basis? I realize that committees or the associations won't change, although there could be some different ones, but is this expected? Do we have an opportunity to host associations, perhaps two or three per year?

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

It varies. For example, we had a Commonwealth Parliamentary Association meeting of the speakers here a couple of years ago. That won't happen again for quite a long time. So it's a matter of moving these things around. The NATO one, I'm sure, rotates among the various member countries fairly significantly. We wouldn't get that one very often either.

The Commonwealth one referred to is a regional one. It's basically the provinces and Ottawa and the territories. That rotates among all the provinces and the territories. Again, that should only happen every 13 years or so.

So it's that kind of thing. This year we just happened to get three, and extra money was required. Obviously, money might be required for a really large one, when one of those falls in, but it's not an annual thing by any stretch of the imagination. It just happened to come this year.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Those are all the questions I have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

Monsieur Guimond.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask another question about succession planning.

I would like to tell the Clerk that I find her answer both satisfactory and disappointing at the same time. I see that she is concerned about succession planning, but that there is no written program or official exercise in place.

I do not want to play the grandfather with you, but my modest 16-year experience in human resources tells me that it might be a good idea to have a written program. They are called succession charts. That would be extremely helpful.

Since we have to take witnesses as they are, I must accept your answer, even though it disappoints me slightly.

I would like to make a comment directed at my colleagues. Earlier, we talked about a centralized fund for purchasing furniture, and Mr. Desroches mentioned discounts of 46 per cent. When you go to a clothing store on Boxing Day and see signs advertising discounts of 50 per cent and 75 per cent — and Scott Reid's family is involved in this sector — I hope you don't think that companies are really taking a loss. It is easy to give a 46 per cent discount on an article when the price is inflated. In another forum, I had demonstrated in black and white that the prices were inflated.

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Desroches will probably answer my next question at the appropriate time and place. Transportation costs need to be taken into account as well. The distribution centre for Grand & Toy, which is located in Toronto, ships a photocopier or a conference table to Gaspé or Sept-Îles. How much would the transportation cost be? We could buy this merchandise from our local supplier. Mr. Desroches need not answer my question about transportation costs immediately. He could give us that answer in a different forum. I cannot talk about what is said in that other forum, because I've taken an oath of secrecy. It is somewhat the same as when we talk about the other place.

You are a member of Parliament, Mr. Speaker. I would like to raise a sensitive matter. Can we trust members of Parliament to manage their budget? Is it thought that members of Parliament are wheelers and dealers who try to play games to get discounts or rebates? When you are told that you have $5,000 to buy furniture but that you cannot buy it from your local supplier, that is a polite way of saying that you are not trustworthy.

Mr. Speaker, when your advertising costs are set at 10 per cent of your budget, that means that someone does not trust you to manage your budget. You're not supposed to use 20 per cent or 28 per cent of your budget for advertising costs. However, a member of Parliament may decide not to have a riding office. When I visited members of Parliament in Scotland, they had their riding office in their home, in their private residence. They did not have a riding office. Some members of Parliament could decide that their riding office was the trunk of their car. They could decide to keep all their files there. They would simply have to open their trunk, take out their files and go to meet with their constituents at Tim Hortons — just to please Sheila Copps — or wherever. However, people will judge them and decide that they are not good members of Parliament because they do not have a real riding office, because their office is the trunk of their car.

So, my question is rhetorical, admittedly. However, it does concern the level of confidence that we should enjoy as members of parliament.

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Guimond, you have been a member of the Board of Internal Economy for a long time. The board decided to increase the members' budget without giving them money. This was done through the creation of a fund that allows members to buy furniture or other equipment. Therefore, this is a fund that is centrally administered by the House of Commons, which is not part of the member's budget.

The member still has a budget to buy anything for his riding office, anywhere in Canada. These moneys are available for that. We created this fund in order to allow members to save money, if they wish to do so. But if they do not wish to do so, or if they wish to eliminate a position or reduce an employee's salary, they are free to do so.

Furthermore, it is the responsibility of each of us here to administer the budget. This is another opportunity to save money, if you will. However, if we wish to buy something at a higher or lower price, we may also do so. One is not obliged to buy equipment with money from this fund. The member's budget is available for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I remember at one time I had wanted to buy a laptop computer in Bathurst. I was advised to buy it in Ottawa, and I refused. I was not elected in Ottawa. People at home have the right to earn a living there, as do people elsewhere. I am not there to support Ottawa businesses. In my opinion, it is the capital, period. As for the rest, what is important is where we come from. Still, some people bring pressures to bear. In this case, for example, I was told that if I bought my computer in Bathurst, the maintenance and repairs would not be done here, in Ottawa. We constantly have to fight for these kinds of things, and I find that unacceptable. After all, their role is to provide services.

I would like to come back to the comment made by our Conservative colleague, who thought it appropriate to specify that he is a Conservative. With all due respect, I would point out to him that we were aware of that fact.

Today, we are in the presence of two chairs, that is to say the Speaker of the House of Commons and the chair of the committee. I must emphasize the fact that the budget passed today has been passed by the four political parties. Otherwise, it would not exist. The expenses were authorized by the Board of Internal Economy. The political parties are all present and the expenditures have been allocated.

Furthermore, in every office in the Justice Building, employees have an alarm button. If there is an emergency, they need only press that button in order for security services to intervene. In our party, we have a collective agreement in which there are provisions dealing with occupational health and safety. Employees in all of the riding offices should be covered by these. The House of Commons should perhaps defray the costs of these kinds of services for employees working in the ridings. These safety measures should be mandatory.

Here, we are surrounded by security guards — and I congratulate them for their work — members of the RCMP and city of Ottawa police. These people are all around the building. In the ridings, on the other hand, some people work alone. In some cases, that is where problems start. Let me give you an example. In my area, the unemployment rate is 20 per cent. Some people, who live in poverty, have frustrations. I do not mean to say by that that poor people cause problems. There are all kinds of people and all kinds of things happen. I do not believe I am the only one to express such fears. We need only think about what sometimes goes on in urban centres, amongst others. In any case, I believe that all employees of riding offices should enjoy some kind of occupational safety measures. This system should offer each and every one of them the same protection.

I would like to thank you for coming to our meeting.

[Audrey O'Brien]

Mr. Chairman, we could certainly take that under consideration. However, it raises certain difficulties, one of which is the fact that members choose the locations in their ridings and in these areas, it would concern the local police forces. Nevertheless, we could study...

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, I was referring to equipment. For example, were an employee to press the button, the call would be transferred to a call system in Moncton and then forwarded to the police in Bathurst. Within three minutes, the police would be on the premises, that is to say at the offices.

[Audrey O'Brien]

We could continue this discussion after the meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much.

I have Mr. Proulx next and then I have no more names. If anybody would like to ask a question, please get your name to me.

Mr. Proulx, five minutes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker and Madam Clerk. I also say hello to your assistants, who are the ones who actually do the work, in reality.

Ms. O'Brien, you are accompanied by Mr. Bard, and that suits me. Do not worry, Mr. Bard, I will not be talking to you about technology.

I want to come back to the issue of translation and interpretation. I know these employees do not report directly to the House. I presume that the departments sell the services they offer to the House. In any case, that is not the subject of my comment.

I would like you to explain to us what quality-control mechanisms exist. I have the advantage or disadvantage of being bilingual. When I listen to the interpretation in the House or at committees, I sometimes perceive that there are differences between what the Speaker has said and the interpretation. This only happens very rarely, but only a single person need interpret incorrectly for the whole system to become tainted.

There is also the issue of texts that we have translated from our offices using the services provided by the House. The service is fast and well documented, but i would like to know what process the House uses to control quality.

[Louis Bard]

Mr. Proulx, you are asking me a question that I would have trouble answering today. I am not aware of the internal workings of the parliamentary translation bureau nor of the ways in which a translator is assessed, nor how quality standards are maintained. However, these are issues that concern us because we do receive a certain number of complaints.

You know that interpreters and translators are human beings. It all depends on the person who is there and on how things are working on a given day. Also, these people acquire a certain independence. They are very proud of the services they offer and they use many specialized tools. There is often a relationship to the volume of work. If there is a significant amount of work, that can present certain difficulties. If there is more French spoken in the House one day, that can cause complications because there are rules, standards to be followed, etc.

If this is so apparent to you, we should be able to discuss more specific issues with these people, with whom we meet regularly to share our concerns. That is the only way in which we can improve the system.

I could get back to the committee with a more detailed report on the way in which quality is controlled.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to know if there is any monitoring done, whether it is in the area of interpretation or in translation. In the great majority of cases, these people are absolutely impeccably professional.

I come back to the fact that a single weak link in the chain can taint the system. Two years ago, I sat on a committee where the interpretation, unfortunately, was far from perfect. This can have very serious consequences. If a person answers a question in French with a “yes” and a “no” in English, or vice versa, that could be quite dangerous.

Ms. O'Brien, I must insist that we be made aware of how the quality is controlled.

If I may, Mr. Speaker, I would like to offer you my congratulations. Having worked in different spheres and with all kinds of people, I can say that at the House of Commons, the services we receive from your staff are absolutely extraordinary. I do not know what you put in the water or in the coffee in the morning, but whether we are talking about maintenance staff, trucking services, technical staff or security people, they are all very attentive and very polite. I do not know if you offer them courses or what you do, but you should perhaps patent your methods, because there is a lot of money to be made with that. Therefore, I congratulate you.

Madam Clerk and Mr. Speaker, I hope you will extend my congratulations to these people, because they are quite outstanding. Thank you.

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I agree with you. Your commendations will be passed along.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

There are many residents of the Hull—Aylmer riding amongst them. And I don't mean that in a partisan way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Order.

I certainly don't want to be the one to interrupt a good compliment in full flight, but we're going to have to move on.

I do not have any more speakers on my list. Is there any more discussion?

Seeing no further discussion, if you could hold on for one moment, please, Mr. Speaker, I would like to dispose of the estimates and report them back to the House.

First of all, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate your coming and your affording us some time today.

Thanks as well to the Clerk of the House and all of the other officials and witnesses.

Members, in front of you is vote 5, Parliament:

PARLIAMENT

House of Commons

Vote 5-- Program expenditures..........$256,312,000

(Vote 5 agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

As well, I would like to report to the House by noon tomorrow, if we can.

Shall I report the main estimates to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and the Clerk of the House. I appreciate your coming out.

We will take a short recess, members, and then we'll talk about future business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I call the meeting back to order.

I believe Mr. Reid wants to propose a motion for members of the committee to have a look at.

Have you distributed the motion to the members?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I believe the clerk has distributed it. It's in both official languages.

This motion, Mr. Chairman, is intended to deal with an issue that arose when the Ethics Commissioner was here. I'm not sure if it's appropriate to simply treat this as a notice of motion so that people can deal with this at a later point in time or to ask for the consent of members of the committee. Obviously, I'm at the disposal of the committee as to what is the appropriate course of action.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Has everybody had an opportunity to read this motion from Mr. Reid? Are there any concerns with it, or shall we just carry it and send it out?

Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, I do not know if Mr. Reid is better informed than I am, but I do not recall mentioning where my daughter was working when I filled in the forms. Is that the case? Do we have to state where our children work?