Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Sept. 13th, 2007

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would request that you convey this motion directly to the Chief Electoral Officer. It has been the position of the Prime Minister that the existing law allows him to force voters to show their faces. The Prime Minister's conviction on that has now been upheld by the committee, and we ask that you convey that directly to the Chief Electoral Officer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you, Mr. Poilievre. That does not mean I'm going to do it, just so you know. I don't know that we need to get into a discussion.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

No, no. I don't want to get into a discussion. It's just that I like people who respect their word. I like committees that respect the rules and regulations.

We had agreed this morning that we would handle this particular matter at this special 15-minute committee meeting prior to going into an in camera session to prepare the draft report.

I don't think it's relevant that Mr. Poilievre wants to tell you or the committee what to put in the letter. I think this should be discussed in camera, in the preparation of the report, so that we can get this moving.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Indeed, that is the decision of the chair. We will go in camera right now so we can discuss the preparation of a report that stems from this particular motion.

We will suspend the meeting for two minutes so we can prepare the room for an in camera meeting.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, let's take our seats, please, and continue the meeting.

I will go through my introductions first. I just want to remind colleagues that we are now in public, televised, and that we are brought here together—the time is about 2:19—to deal with the original motion.

I am going to recognize Monsieur Proulx first. Are these points of order? We're going to carry on with the meeting--

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

No, we're into the meeting and I want to debate the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

You want to be first. Here we go. You're first.

We're taking names and we'll start right now.

Just so colleagues know, we're on the original motion, back to Monday. Mr. Proulx, you have the floor, and the debate begins.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The original motion suggested that we discuss allegations of systematic attempts on the part of the Conservative Party of Canada to defraud Elections Canada and Canadian taxpayers in connection with the 2006 electoral campaign. During the previous meetings on Monday and Tuesday there were all sorts of dilatory tactics and attempts to delay proceedings and to prevent us from discussing that motion. You will certainly recall that an amendment was tabled by our Conservative Party colleagues in an attempt to cloud the issue and weaken this motion. It was debated at length and the outcome was that the amendment was defeated. So we are now discussing the original motion.

Mr. Chairman, the original motion is the result of allegations made against the Conservative Party. I should perhaps say, rather, that they were brought against certain individuals in the Conservative Party who are reputed to have used a method known as the in-and-out method to transfer money from the Conservative Party of Canada—the national party—to riding associations, and to then... As my colleague Mr. Guimond said during previous meetings, the transfer of funds from a national party to a riding association is a process approved by Elections Canada and by the Canada Elections Act. However, according to these allegations that money from the ridings was used to pay expenses incurred by the Conservative Party of Canada—the national party—which allowed it to exceed the spending limits set by the Canada Elections Act.

I think, Mr. Chairman, that it would be entirely appropriate to examine those allegations. To give you a context and to help you understand why this study is so important, I will give you the name of a few witnesses who could be invited to testify before the committee. Among the array of witnesses we could call, I am thinking in particular of Ms. Sylvie Boucher, a Conservative member elected in 2006 in the riding of Beauport—Limoilou in Quebec. Ms. Boucher enjoys great credibility, I am sure of it.

[A voice]

Hear, hear.

[An hon. member]

Could you repeat the name?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

It was Mrs. Sylvie Boucher.

[An hon. member]

She was a member of your caucus. You probably don't know her.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

She was elected a member of Parliament in 2006 in Beauport—Limoilou, and I'm sure that--

[An hon. member]

Is she a Conservative?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Madame Boucher, who is a Conservative, has very good credibility. As a matter of fact, she was appointed parliamentary secretary to the Prime Minister; therefore, she has to be very honest and very frank.

[An hon. member]

Yes, she is a VIP.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

It would be interesting to hear what she has to say.

Heidy Cornejo was the official agent for the Conservative candidate, Mrs. Boucher, in Beauport—Limoilou in 2006. It would be interesting to hear their versions, as far as they knew or didn't know what was happening with this money.

I remind you, Mr. Chair, that both the official agent and the candidate have to sign the return filed with Elections Canada to request the reimbursement of expenses. As you well know, because you've done that—meaning you've signed a report, and I'm not alleging anything wrong on your part—you're telling Elections Canada that you know where the money went, how it was spent, and you agree with the way the money was spent, according to electoral laws in Canada.

We could also invite Mrs. Ann Julie Fortier, who was a Conservative candidate in the Quebec riding of Berthier—Maskinongé prior to the 2006 election. We are told by the media and by Mrs. Fortier, who wrote a very extensive, complete letter to Le Devoir, a well-read and honest French language newspaper, that she was—I'll use the expression “flushed”, but it's not the right word—pushed aside by the Conservative Party because supposedly she didn't agree to be involved in these different transactions.

There could be the official agent for the Conservative candidate in the riding of Bourassa in 2006, Brian Eugene Alexandrovitch.

There could be the candidate in Bourassa in 2006, Mr. Liberato Martelli.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Mr. Proulx—

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I'm just wondering if it might be more efficient to hand in a potential witness list, once we've decided to investigate this matter.

I'm happy to let you go, because I sure don't want to cut you off, but the history of the committee is to simply hand in a witness list.

Let's shorten it up a bit. How about that? There were go.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes, except that we're on debate. I don't think you're trying to cut my time; I'm sure you're not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

No, not at all. It's just the witness list. There we go.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes, and the reason for me not handing in the list as such is that I'm not saying it would be the total or final list. I'm making suggestions to the committee about why we could consider inviting these people to be witnesses.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

A point of order.