Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 5th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Immediately? I think the Standing Orders suggest 15 minutes after the business of the House is over.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Would you read that standing order, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

It is Standing Order 115(5):

Notwithstanding Standing Orders 108(1)(a) and 113(5), the Chair of the standing, special, legislative or joint committee shall suspend the meeting when the bells are sounded to call in the Members to a recorded division, unless there is unanimous consent of the members of the committee to continue to sit.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

And what about the 15 minutes?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

That's entirely up to the chair.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Ah, you decided 15 minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

There is a procedure. It's a proposal--

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Ah, a proposal.

No, right after the vote we start. We want to listen in. It's important. Yes, I suggest that just after the vote we resume our work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

You know, colleagues, the chair is absolutely aware of the gamesmanship going on back and forth, and I don't appreciate any of it. The fact that I'm suggesting that members have some time to get back to this room...and the term “immediately” versus “15 minutes”.... I think the member opposite is raising an insignificant and trivial point, if I may say so. We have members here who limp. I'm not suggesting that's why I'm calling it. The procedure in the past has always been 15 minutes.

How would it be if we did this? I'll be down here first thing, and if there's no quorum within 14 seconds, I'll adjourn the meeting.

But rather than do that, since we're playing games, I'm going to suspend the meeting until Thursday.

[Proceedings suspended on February 5 at 17:34]

[Proceedings resumed on February 7 at 11:02]

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, let's resume meeting number 14, picking up where we left off.

Is there a point of order?

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chairman, we consider that last Tuesday you unilaterally and illegally suspended the meeting of your own volition.

We therefore consider that it was an adjournment. We all know that committees follow the same rules as the House of Commons and that they are perceived as appendices of it. Consequently, when the House resumes its work the day following an adjournment, there is a requirement to adopt a new agenda. And I would add in passing — and you can see it every day in the Order Paper — that there is no requirement for the House nor for committees to resume the debate interrupted the day before. We therefore believe that we should proceed with the adoption of a new agenda.

I am therefore proposing the adoption of the following agenda: that the Committee immediately undertake the study of the report of its subcommittee on agenda and procedure and that it conclude this study before dealing with any other matter.

I have here before me the text of some Standing Orders that support what I am putting forward. I also have quotes drawn from Marleau-Montpetit in support of my proposal. Therefore, I am asking you, Mr. Chairman, to hand down a decision and rule immediately.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I've reviewed the minutes from the last meeting.

This is very, very clear. I cited the Standing Orders, which don't make reference to time. The meeting was suspended.

I appreciate the member's argument, as eloquent as it was. However, it's very clear that we suspended that meeting.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I am challenging the decision you made unilaterally, that of suspending the meeting. I am therefore asking for a vote on your ruling.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

You can't break the rules. The rules are very clear.

I would be happy to make a ruling on something that's not clear, but it's very clear. No ruling is necessary.

Mr. Lukiwski, you have the floor.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Is there another point of order?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I'd like to hear the clerk on the issue just raised by my colleague Mr. Guimond. The clerk is here to provide advice to all members of the committee. You just made a statement that you declare is not a ruling.

I'd like to hear the clerk.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Is that allowed?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

He's here to provide his procedural advice.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

That's a very complicated matter. I'm wondering if I should take some time to think about it.

Okay, the advice I've received is that the meeting was suspended, not adjourned, but if you have anything else to add—

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. James M. Latimer]

Well, through you to the committee, Mr. Chair, I'm not sure what the question is. Is it by which authority you suspended the meeting?

[An hon. member]

The Standing Orders.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I have a point of order here from Madam Jennings.

Could you clarify what you're asking the clerk?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Guimond has made a point of order on a ruling, a decision, that you made. You have declared that you did not make any decision, but were simply applying a rule, and I'm asking the clerk, under Montpetit—which says the clerk is there to provide procedural advice to all members—whether or not, when a chair makes a ruling that a particular rule applies, it is a ruling. When a chair makes the statement, is that a ruling or not?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

It sounds rather like “Who said the majority rules?” But anyway....