Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2008

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chairman, could you please enlighten me. Where does the report of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure stand? Is it adopted?

The Catholic catechism talks about a state called limbo. Limbo is between earth and heaven. We are in limbo; it's a passage before entering heaven.

The Subcommittee report—

In English it's what? Limbs?

[An hon. member]

It's limbo.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Michel Guimond: Where do we stand on the adoption of the report of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure,

the steering committee report, and where we are?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I'm going to make a decision on this first point, then I'm happy to answer that question. But I'm going to suspend the meeting for a few minutes to consult with the clerk on the first point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, I'll call the meeting back to order.

I've just had a conversation with the clerk, and I appreciate all the opinions around the table. I think there is some possibility to go either way on this, but I think the strength of the arguments I'm hearing from all members around the table is that this is not a superseding motion. It is a legitimate motion that therefore is debatable and amendable. I'm going to confirm with Madam Redman that the speaking list therefore survives. Madam Redman is next on the list.

Mr. Lemieux, do you have anything further to say?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, I'd like to explain why I'm tabling this motion in front of the committee. I feel the committee needs to.... It's all right, I can wait.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Go ahead, Mr. Lemieux. We're gathering speakers. I want to make sure I see everybody.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

What I'm saying is this.

As a committee, we must move forward and continue our important work. There are a lot of things to do.

I'm a new member, I've been here for two years, and I've noticed that we've wasted our time in recent meetings. We're not doing the committee's important work. I spoke with—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Excuse me, colleagues, please. I'm trying to listen and hear the translator as well. I sure don't want to control any debate that's going on around the table, but could we have the debate away from the table, or perhaps in the hall?

Is this a point of order?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Point of order, Madam Jennings, please.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I really need some clarification. Last week when Madam Redman moved a motion, my understanding was that it was a superseding motion--that was your definition--and therefore the debate immediately went to her motion. At some point, while debate on her motion was going on, the meeting was adjourned--and if I'm misstating something, I would appreciate a correction. Therefore, when we came back, the business should have been Ms. Redman's motion that was being debated, which I had understood was a superseding motion. It could not be amended and could only be debated. I had moved the question--

[An hon. member]

Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Okay, we'll hear it. I'm listening to Madam Jennings right now.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I had moved the question. We can get the blues to determine whether or not my recollection is correct. If that's the case, the motion Mr. Lemieux just tabled couldn't be tabled because the question had been put on Ms. Redman's motion.

That's why I'm asking for clarification. Have I misunderstood something?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

My recollection is that no question was put, but we're going to check anyway, Madam Jennings.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Please check, because the question was put. I put the question.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Chair, on the same point of order, I disagree with where you're heading on it. Mr. Lemieux's motion certainly seems like committee business; however, should you rule the opposite, that the last meeting was to carry on, I certainly still have things to say on that motion, and I was the speaker at the time.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

My recollection is that the last meeting was called for a very specific reason. The reason was in writing. The motion Ms. Redman put forward was different from the reason the meeting was convened in the first place, so it's a superseding motion. It is superseding the business of the day, the reason the last meeting was convened.

The order of the day is committee business, so it's open as to what committee business is. There's nothing to be superseded here. The last meeting was adjourned. We're starting a new meeting. It's under the orders of the day. There's the agenda, it's committee business. So my motion is simply to define what I would like to see as our committee business. It's not superseding anything, because there was nothing on the agenda at the beginning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Madam Picard is next, please, on the same point, and then Mr. Proulx.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have the same questions as Ms. Jennings regarding Ms. Redman's motion. Earlier I thought I understood, when Mr. Lemieux introduced the motion on the study of Bill C-6, that you had said there wouldn't be any debate. So I thought we were moving on to the vote.

I don't really agree with Mr. Lemieux's remarks because, normally, with regard to the committee's business, that decision should come from the committee and we didn't decide that. It's quite clear that all this toing and froing is designed to make us waste our time; it's so you can continue your obstruction for hours more, until you adjourn. And when we come back, following the recess week, we'll start over again in the same way. I think that's enough.

You said we would be voting on Bill C-6, so let's vote on the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chairman, the committee was convened to discuss committee business. We have long been dealing with this second report of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

It would be much more logical and much more acceptable to start by discussing matters in the chronological order in which they were presented to the committee. The first of those subjects is surely the adoption of the second report of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. We should therefore simply go back to the adoption of that Subcommittee report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

We're getting away from the main point here. I'm allowing it because I want to hear everybody's opinion, but we're starting to drift into topics other than the original point. I just want to caution folks to help me. Let's try to stay on the original point by Madam Jennings.

Madam Jennings, you're next to offer some more advice to the chair. Then Monsieur Lemieux, and Mr. Godin.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Following a discussion with several of my colleagues, I believe this is what happened and this is why Monsieur Lemieux's motion is in fact, one, in order, etc.

Ms. Redman moved that the committee move to.... We had the request by four members. That's right. I moved concurrence in the report of the subcommittee. That was being debated. That was being filibustered by Mr. Preston, I believe. At the end of the meeting, rather than calling the question, you adjourned the meeting.

As a result of that, this is an entirely new meeting, as Mr. Lemieux said. It's committee business, and he had the luck of the draw that he got the floor before anyone else and therefore was able to move his motion, that the committee should immediately move to consider Bill C-6.

I think we should vote on it.