Evidence of meeting #5 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sunday.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Public Policy, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
Anybody can say no, but people want to participate in community activity and there's a proud heritage of doing that. So to take something away that churches and communities have come behind in the past is unfortunate.
So they can say no, but they would rather say yes and have it on other days.
Reverend, Ottawa Presbytery, The United Church of Canada
Certainly they could say no, but I would echo the point that churches do want to participate in the process. They want to be seen by their communities as being active partners in the democratic process, so they would want their buildings used.
The other thing I might say about rental space is that in our experience United Church congregations often rent these spaces at a discounted rate. Elections Canada pays at a good rate, so if you're the person making the decision on who you want to rent to, that may have an influence.
Bloc
Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC
I'd like to come back to the second point, and that is religious worship. Canada's Chief Elector Officer drew our attention to the fact that since it was an advanced poll, even if polling lasted all day and was just as important as the general election the following day, the same rules would not apply. For example, as far as solicitation and signage are concerned, there are no guidelines. It's quite possible that what is actually not allowed on the day of the general election would be permitted. You might end up having campaign signs and election posters in the vicinity of churches and candidates shaking people's hands outside the church door.
Would that be acceptable for those individuals attending your various churches on Sunday who go there to worship? Wouldn't that be an irritant? My question is directed to all three of you.
Executive Director, Baptist General Conference of Canada
Just quickly, my friend, the Baptist tradition very strongly separates the political electoral issue from the religious issue. We allow no signs on our properties. We do not distribute signs from our properties. We do not allow people to make election speeches in our churches.
Director, Public Policy, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
The Evangelical Fellowship of Canada regularly publishes an election kit for churches to make sure they're all aware that churches are places for non-partisan activity and that no signage or promotion of particular political parties should happen in the church building.
Reverend, Ottawa Presbytery, The United Church of Canada
That would be echoed in the United Church, that it be non-partisan, which usually means that there are no signs available.
Bloc
Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC
Mr. Cryer, I really appreciated you mentioning the fact that the day of worship varies depending on the religion. You referred to Friday for Muslims, Saturday for Jews and Sunday for Christians. At the end of the day, shouldn't we simply ban polling at places of worship so that a clear distinction is made between religion and civic spaces? Shouldn't the law state that no church shall be rented out as a polling station, and that a distinction must be made between the religious and civic spheres? I'm asking you this question in the context of the questions you had in relation to potential disruptions on days of worship.
I don't know if any of you wish to comment on that.
Director, Public Policy, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
I believe most religious communities would want to be active participants in community life and in civic engagement. So we can ask that question, why rent in religious facilities, but that's not at the heart or the intent of religious communities.
As I think I pointed out just in observation, there are already advance polls on Fridays and Saturdays that do affect Muslim and Jewish communities. If you had regular advance polls on Sunday, perhaps there would be seen to be a measure of fairness that every religious group is being hit on one of their days. So in that sense, I have to be honest; if it were just an advance poll, we may have debated more about this issue. The real issue, though, is that it's all polling stations on particularly that Sunday before. That's what has a significant impact on our community.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Colleagues, I'm going to have to end that round. I do hear people getting their questions answered, which I suppose is the key point.
Mr. Angus, you're up. You have seven minutes.
Next round will be five minutes, and I will hold people to that.
Mr. Angus, please.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for coming today.
I think this discussion is a very profound one. The question of how we encourage more people to vote is certainly a profound question, as is whether or not our Sunday becomes the means to do that. I personally believe that if we got politicians out of the gutter, off the spin, and off the attack ad, maybe more people would want to vote. The question is whether taking Sunday will do that.
What we're seeing from Elections Canada is that they expect a marginal result at fair cost. I don't think cost is really the issue--if it is the issue--of getting people to participate, but they're not seeing, on this final Sunday, much of an impact in terms of getting the recalcitrant voter to show up.
We have to be very clear as to what we're talking about. We're not talking about an advance poll; we're talking about full-out voting, all the bells and whistles. Regardless of whether you allow signs on your property or not, they will be up on the property, because that's what is done at polls. People might have the choice not to vote, but they won't have the choice not to receive all the phone calls and the bother they get from the big-party machines, because that's how elections are run.
So I'd like to ask you simply, for the impact that it's going to have for faith groups and for people who see Sunday as their one day, are we crossing a social Rubicon here that you think needs to be examined more closely before we simply rubber-stamp this?
Executive Director, Baptist General Conference of Canada
Mr. Angus, thank you.
I would like to speak qualitatively; I do not have quantitative evidence. The Baptist General Conference of Canada highly respects the federal government. We believe it is the power that governs our nation. When this act comes to us we feel disrespected in that the one day that we observe would suddenly be marginalized and treated like any other day. So on a qualitative basis we would see this as an indicator of a disrespect from our federal government.
Director, Public Policy, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
I'll give you the observation of David Macfarlane, who spoke to me personally. He's our national initiatives coordinator. He meets with pastors from every evangelical denomination possible all across Canada. It might be too strong a word, but he said that this would be seen as another reversal, or another strike against the Christian community. He believes, from his conversations with pastors all across Canada, that they would react more negatively than favourably to this.
Reverend, Ottawa Presbytery, The United Church of Canada
The United Church is very conscious that we live in a multicultural and interfaith kind of context. I don't think we feel threatened by the idea of people being allowed to vote on Sunday. But we do want to be conscious that in many communities the churches and other religious meeting places are partners in the process. We want to facilitate that dialogue and that partnership to help people have a sense of ownership about what's happening through the democratic process in their community.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I'll follow up on that issue of interfaith. In my community it was pointed out by a former minister whom I knew that we have four congregations. I thought we only had three, but he included the coffee shop as the fourth congregation. He said if he actually had his way, he felt that was congregation he would like to spend his time with.
When he said that, I recognized there was an element of truth that is often overlooked, that people, whether or not they go to church on Sunday, see Sunday as a special day. Regardless of their faith background, it is a day of rest, it's a day of choice for family. My colleagues from the Conservatives say they could choose to vote. They certainly could choose, but they often choose to create a sphere that is not impacted. I would like to get back to the reality that we are now proposing, that they would be getting their doors knocked on, that they would be phoned, that they would be called to come out and act as volunteers--because these are the people who are the volunteers for election campaigns, these are the people who work for Elections Canada.
In your experience, whether or not it is a Christian denomination or whether it's the Sunday coffee crowd or the people who go to their camp with their kids, do you feel there's a sense of a possible backlash, of a growing cynicism? I know it's hard enough knocking on doors with some people sometimes when you're a politician. I certainly wouldn't want to know what the response would be on a Sunday, when people see this as their one time alone. Do you feel there might be a cynical backlash towards politicians in general if we put out the big party machine on a Sunday?
Executive Director, Baptist General Conference of Canada
Mr. Angus, that's my first point, it would have a severe irritation factor in the community that I'm part of, irritation.
Director, Public Policy, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
If the intent is to increase voter turnout, you don't want to cause an irritation to the group, or at least one group, that you're trying to get out. I'd certainly like us to consider advance polling on other days, even the full week before elections. If we're not overly concerned about cost as the major issue but we're looking at different avenues to get people out to vote, then perhaps we could examine the costs of opening up advance polls from Monday to Friday, the day before, or holding the election on Monday and Tuesday, have the two election days. There are so many other possibilities. We just don't have to encroach on Sunday, which is recognized as a common day of rest, if not in legislation, at least in people's attitudes.
Reverend, Ottawa Presbytery, The United Church of Canada
What comes to mind to me is the conversation years ago about Sunday shopping. Our denomination's stance was that it's not about preventing people the possibility of the choice that they want to shop on Sunday, but what are the implications for those who are mandated to be engaged or work because the activity is going to be made available? I think that's what you're raising. I think certainly, yes, there would be, in some of our communities, a sense that this is an imposition on not just worship time but, as you stated, a time that families hold as sacred out of whatever week they have and the relationships that they want to cherish.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Thank you very much, Mr. Angus. You were actually under time. I'm going to offer you a bit of time here because I've given everybody else an extra minute. If you wanted to ask one short question to one witness, I'll allow that.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Mr. Cryer, I'll follow up with you.
It was Madam Roberts who pointed out that when Sunday shopping was raised, people said, well, don't worry, if people don't want to work on Sunday, they won't have to” I've never seen a single mother who was ever given that option, and I know many kids in my community who spend their Sundays without their parents because they are working on Sundays.
The question I have is for people in workplaces who right now have the legal right to vote on Monday. How many of them do you expect will actually have the right to go to vote on Monday when their boss says, “You can take Sunday to go to vote. That's when you're going to vote, because Monday is a day of work.”
I'd like to know whether you have a perspective on that scenario.
Director, Public Policy, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
Yes. I can just agree with you that any time something like this happens, some people have a choice and others haven't. In the case of people who are forced to live on minimum wage and are forced to work on Sundays, we have the choice to visit those stores and visit those minimum-wage workers on Sundays. It's the same with voting opportunities. We have a choice of whether or not to vote. We don't have a choice of who comes to our door or how many phone calls we'll receive.
I think that is enough said.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Colleagues, we're going to go to our second round. I'm starting to hear similar responses. There is a theme in the questions and a theme in the responses, so I'm going to ask members to go to a new topic or a new questioning theme, if you can.
This round I'm going to suggest we stick to four minutes, given the time; we have other witnesses. If you don't have any questions, that's just great.
We'll start with Madam Redman.
Madam Redman, is four minutes fair?
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you.
I unfortunately had to step out. If it's possible in four minutes, I'd like to share my time with my colleague Ms. Brown.
My question is probably on just a slightly different tack from those most people have been taking. I have to thank you so much for coming, because I think this really underscores the need for consultation so that.... Wildly held assumptions obviously don't hold true.
I taught Sunday school at St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church for 18 years. I know that one of the huge issues—and it's an ongoing issue for my congregation—is engaging young people. It's a huge concern for me, as a member of Parliament, that we continue to engage young people.
I know that from your faith communities you probably have the same concerns. Have you reflected upon or can you give us any insight into what we can do federally as members of Parliament to engage young people, so that they do come out to vote whenever that opportunity is offered?