Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 29th, 2007

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Thank you very much.

Being born and raised in Saskatchewan, I just love having you guys come here to Ottawa to see what this place is like.

I have a couple of quick questions for you. You mentioned I think that your voter turnout in your last election was 75% or thereabouts. That is quite a bit higher than certainly the national average in the last federal election. Is that an upward trend? Is that higher than your usual Saskatchewan elections from previous years, or is it an anomaly? How does it compare to the Saskatchewan turnout of voters in the last federal election? Lastly, to what do you attribute this relatively high rate of voter turnout?

[Jean Ouellet]

As indicated in my presentation, I'm not a scholar, so I won't speculate.

It was 76%; the previous general election was 70.95%; the previous one was 65%; the one before that was, again, 63%; and then before that, in 1991, we had 82% or 83%. The Saskatchewan people do vote, they're interested in showing up and making their mark.

To what would I attribute the growth? As I indicated before, there are two interveners in the rate of turnout: one is the political process and one is the administrative process. As to which is the most responsible for it, I wouldn't speculate, but certainly there was great interest in this particular election in Saskatchewan, and it shows.

We also changed the way we delivered elections in Saskatchewan in that election. For example, for the first time we used radio, as I indicated before. We changed our advertising program, which was mostly legalistic and very repulsive—that is the expression—to something that is more user friendly, and that enticed people to vote. We also, for the very first time in a provincial election, used voter information cards. It had never been done before, but people expect it now; they see it federally, they see it municipally, so they should see it provincially as well. It's a combination of many efforts, and scholars will tell us later on what was the true reason.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Thank you.

I can probably look this up myself, but if you know right off the bat, what was the rate of turnout in the last federal election among Saskatchewan voters? Do you know that?

[Jean Ouellet]

I must apologize, I don't.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

I'll check that out myself. It's very interesting.

How close am I to being finished?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

You're pretty much done.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Thank you. My internal clock told me that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much, colleagues.

We don't have any other questioners on our list from the other parties, so we will have time for a third round, and we'll stay with three minutes. I'll be watching if you generate a question, but right now we'll go to Mr. Lukiwski for three minutes, please.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you both, Mr. Ouellet and Mr. Wilkie, for coming. It's good to see you both again, coming from Saskatchewan, the home of the Grey Cup champions.

[Voices]

Hear, hear!

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

The question I was going to ask was originally broached by Mr. Epp, and I have an answer to Mr. Epp's question. Mine was going to be the difference between the federal voter turnout and the provincial voter turnout. You had mentioned that in the last two provincial elections the voter participation rate went from 71% to 76%, and in the last two federal elections the voter turnout was about 63% to 64%, or in that range, so significantly lower.

I'd like to get you to perhaps offer your opinions, because these are the same voters, on why there is a difference. My belief, and I don't know if you share this, is that the last two provincial elections in Saskatchewan have been four years apart, whereas the last two federal elections have been about 18 months apart. Do you see the frequency of elections in a minority government, when you are going to—usually, at least--have elections far more frequently than a government that elects its members for a majority...? Other than that, are there any reasons you see as to why you have been able to, on average, get a significantly larger amount of the voters to come out to the polls in Saskatchewan for a provincial vote than we do federally?

[Jean Ouellet]

That would be speculating. I think there is such a thing as voter fatigue, and it also depends when the election takes place. I'm a believer in fixed election dates, and that will certainly help people plan, and you now have that federally. That may help.

If you look at the municipal voter turnout, it is even lower than that 60%, so people tend to show up when they feel the issues are closer to them than for more larger questions.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

One of the reasons, of course, is that if the electorate wants to change governments, they tend to increase the numbers. But again, federally that didn't work. I mean, we changed governments in 2006 and the voter turnout was the same as in 2004.

All the things you do in terms of informing the voters is perhaps the real reason. I applaud you for your efforts in Saskatchewan.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you, Mr. Lukiwski.

We have had some indication that there are two more questions, so I will go to a fourth round. It will have to be very short this time.

Madam Redman and then Mr. Reid, and then I think we're done.

Madam Redman, please.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I realize that was not a height reference when you said short, Mr. Chair.

[An hon. member]

You can boost the seat, Karen.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I need to apologize. I've been in and out during your intervention, so if you've covered this off, I'll read the blues.

I was very interested in your discussion about super polls. It seems to me that, not unlike public transit, people will take it if it goes where and when they want to go, and if you put polls where people are already frequenting, you would probably have a much higher voter turnout. Do you have additional information as to where you decide to locate them and, logistically, are there are any special requirements or challenges? I'm thinking that the classic shopping mall is a place you would put them. Do you have that kind of information?

[Jean Ouellet]

It's purely guesswork. Shopping malls are where the youth are. You can certainly reach some of these individuals there. In terms of grocery stores, for example, having a fairly rural province, some of the farmers from the outlying communities will do their groceries in the cities--in Regina or Saskatoon, or whatever. If we can offer the convenience of voting at the same time, I think that's great.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I think that's something very much worth pursuing. I'm intrigued by that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you, Madam Redman.

Mr. Reid, please, for three minutes.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

I also want to ask about the super poll idea, partly because it's within the scope of this bill. We've tended to wander off to enumeration issues, which can't be dealt with in the scope of this bill, but striking the super polls can.

I am also going to ask about improved youth participation. You mentioned shopping malls. Could they be done on university campuses? We have large numbers of students, frequently from a variety of ridings, and in some cases there are student bodies of 10,000 or more. Is it something that can be done in a place like that? And has it been done in Saskatchewan?

[Jean Ouellet]

Wherever you can imagine placing them, I will place them. In this particular election, we had people, who were almost in tears, calling us to put them in universities. I had to say I am sorry, I can only put them in universities for the individuals who are living in a residence at the university. I can't reach the entire community. What is a better place than a university to reach the students, for God's sake? I mean, that's where they live most of the time. If they could have that convenience, absolutely, I'll put them wherever I can reach the people.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

It's an accident of how we've designed our system. I don't know if it's a happy or unhappy accident. You vote, not where you work but where you sleep. It's where you are at night, not where you are during the day. That creates all kinds of problems in a commuter society. It sounds like you're trying to address that problem.

Something else that strikes me with regard to universities is that typically a student body doesn't have some of the ID that is helpful in voting. Do you think there's merit in doing something connected with the idea of the super poll that allows people to be assisted in bringing their ID up to date by the time of the vote? I guess it would be like having a returning office, in a sense, where you can deal with the administrative issues. This strikes me as something that could assist in boosting voter turnout by giving students the tools they need to do their voting.

[Jean Ouellet]

As Mr. Lukiwski touched on earlier, in Saskatchewan, we still have enumeration within every electoral event. We do not have a permanent register of electors. There was mention of it in the past, but it's still not there. We do not have identification of voters in Saskatchewan, unless their name is not on the list. It is only when their name is not on the list that they have to show a proof of residence and a proof of identify, which does not include visual identify.

If you have kiosk voting, you can certainly have greater service. I mean, look at Service Canada. Why can't I put a poll there? They'll confirm the identity of my voter, and the voter will cast a ballot. It would be perfect--absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much.

I regret that we're going to have to stop there. It wouldn't be fair to go to one more member without a full round, and we don't have time for a full round. I will offer an option to any members who still have questions: if you will please get them to me, I will make sure our witnesses receive them and I will request that the witnesses answer those questions, if there are any, as quickly as possible.

On behalf of the committee, I want to thank both of you for coming. Again, those were insightful answers. When committees have to deal with these types of issues, it's always helpful to have the advice of experts so that we can do our jobs better.

We'll excuse the witnesses with the compliments of the committee.

Colleagues, we were to end at 12:30 so that we could do committee business. I want to remind members that we still have a meeting with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. That meeting has been moved down the hall. I will instruct you as to where that is. The reason is that this room is booked, so we cannot stay in this room. However, if we could have members back to the table, I want to remind members of a number of things.

We have had a letter back from Mr. Marcel Blanchet. It was distributed to members of the committee during the meeting; that letter is before you.

As well, we will be starting clause-by-clause study of Bill C-16 on Tuesday. In order to ensure that our clerks and analysts have an opportunity to have a look at amendments and get them published as they have to, would it be acceptable to members to request that any amendments to Bill C-16 be in by one o'clock Friday--tomorrow?

I'm hearing an ooh, but not an outright objection. There's an ahh; I've got an ahh.