Evidence of meeting #20 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was code.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That would be one option. It is up to you to decide.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I am interested in some of the questions prepared by our analyst. For instance, the difficulty in retaining staff. I don't know if the question has already been asked. Have there been any changes, progress?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I do not think this problem is specific to us. We are currently experiencing a great deal of change within our staff. Last year, I believe we lost 8 staff members and hired 10. That is a significant percentage of our complement. In my opinion, the problem affects everyone.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Could you tell the committee what proportion of your office's resources goes to administering the code and how much is devoted to other activities, such as the administration of the Conflict of Interest Act?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It is difficult to say, because each staff member does a variety of things. However, we could probably say that three or four individuals are responsible for the code.
Assistant Commissioner, Advisory and Compliance, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It is difficult to say because all staff members work both on the code and on the act. So we cannot really give you specific figures as to how much work goes into the code. However, we can say that approximately 25% of the workload has to do with the code. The rest has to do with the act.
In our unit, we have approximately two full-time staff working on the code, representing a bit less than a quarter of the entire unit.
October 6th, 2009 / 11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good day, Ms. Dawson, Mr. Maertens and Ms. Robinson-Dalpé. Thank you for coming to see us this morning.
Before I ask my killer question, I want to go back to the point raised by Ms. DeBellefeuille. Perhaps there are only four, five or six MPs who asked for your advice, but maybe it is because the others had already said no. However, if they did not say no, do you not think it would be a good idea for you to write a note to MPs informing them of your decision and your interpretation?
That offer was made to all the MPs. I understand that it is not your job to forewarn MPs but I think that your role should be expanded to prevent problems and advise MPs of your decisions and interpretations.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, that is a good idea. We are thinking along the same lines, for example with regard to donations. That is another example. We have to resolve a number of situations. It is sometimes difficult to make decisions.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Yes, except that it is clear that it was sent to everyone. Everyone would need that memorandum, I think. That is one suggestion.
Assistant Commissioner, Advisory and Compliance, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That is an excellent point. It is quite important to note that, when people call us, they do not necessarily indicate that the offer was extended to all the MPs. It will be essential, then, for both sides to exchange information, in order to be able to address those points.
If something concerns all the MPs, we need to know that. That way, we could send everyone the information.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Good, thank you.
Ms. Dawson, on several occasions, we talked about the situation concerning MPs who do something else in addition to being MPs. If, tomorrow morning, I decided I wanted to get into radio and TV ads, for whomever, or if a TV or radio station asked me to host a show, what would you make of that? What would your interpretation of that be, pursuant to the conflict of interest code for members of Parliament?
Obviously, if I host a radio or TV show, I would find it very difficult to separate that role from my role as an MP; there would be partisanship, for and against my colleagues. Furthermore, there is the issue of remuneration.
How would you view this, under the code, Ms. Dawson?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Do you want to know how I would review the code?
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
How would you look at a situation where I have offers to run a television show or a radio show, or I could decide to be an actor because of offers that have been made to represent soap companies or hair grooming products or cars or whatever? How would that fit into your interpretation of what we are allowed, what we are not allowed, and how we're supposed to declare this?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Well, under section 7 of the code, you are allowed expressly to engage in outside employment, or to carry on a business, or to do a variety of different things like that, as long as you're able to fulfill your obligations under the code. That's the exception. So this is an example of a kind of situation we'd have to look at very carefully to see whether, by engaging in a particular activity outside of your job as a member, it was interfering with your capacity to properly fulfill your obligations as a member.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Ms. Dawson, do you consider voting in the House of Commons as part of our duty as an MP? If I decide that out of 200 votes in a year, I only participate in 5 or 10, would you consider that a breach?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I would say so. If your outside employment prevented you from being able to do that, I'd probably say yes.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Okay. Have you ever investigated or have you ever looked into such situations or situation?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No, I have not.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No.
Liberal
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That would be the case, yes.
