Evidence of meeting #21 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vote.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
The increase of some 400 advance polls is a 10% increase in the number of advance polls in the ridings.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
Could you provide the clerk with the distribution of those 397 stations in the provinces?
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Yes, no problem.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
Thank you.
I also want to make a comment on what my colleague Mr. Proulx mentioned. The voter information card: don't think about it. It would be good for people who work on your team to come and conduct an election campaign with us to see. You're thinking of that, in your ivory tower here, in Ottawa, but in the field... I invite one of your officials to come into the field to do a tour of the apartment buildings with me and to see how voter cards are managed. They litter entrance halls; the Canada Post employee doesn't put them in the right place. In addition, apartment buildings aren't all like those where the mother lives upstairs in the residence of her child, who lives downstairs. That's not the actual situation in Quebec and Canada. These are buildings of 32 apartments, 64 apartments, bigger ones, condos. Come and see in the field. Get out a little and come and see how the voter information cards are managed. I'm telling you: don't even think about it. After the next election—if people still trust me—I'm going to bring you a package this thick of cards that litter the street, that litter the lawn. Don't think about it. Go into the field during an election campaign. Hire some students and ask them to go and see how it works.
I want to tell you that I'm disappointed with your presentation this morning, for three things, two in particular. Memory is a faculty that forgets; everyone knows that. You've made the headlines—and you, personally, have been forced to respond to the media—on the subject of the safekeeping of ballot boxes during advance polls. There was the case of the riding of Quebec City. It's true that I had to manage my office as whip during certain parts of your presentation. However, I don't remember hearing you talk about it or say that you're working on this issue. We'll have to look seriously for a place where they can be left when there are no advance polls. We found them in the trunk of a car, and you were on the news. I spoke about it individually with you following the election. I don't think I'm betraying any secrets of the confessional. I told you I was sure the Chief Electoral Officer hadn't liked being on the news for two or three days during the last election. That means that I expected you to tell us this morning that you were working on that issue.
I also expected you to be working on the issue of voting with an uncovered face. That hasn't been resolved yet. What do you do with people who vote while wearing goalie masks, plastic bags, burqas, etc.? I don't think that's resolved yet. I was expecting you to act like the Chief Electoral Officer instead of making arrangements such as going into a small back room—an arrangement that shows that we don't recognize equality between men and women—since the person unveils herself solely in front of a woman. Canada and Quebec are considered secular societies. Every person must uncover his or her face in order to vote. I think that's entirely normal.
I would also have liked to talk about mobile polling in seniors residences. Currently it's the residence owners who must ask the returning officer to take the ballot box. I asked my local returning officer why he didn't do the reverse, and whether it was like the Guaranteed Income Supplement: the 82-year-old who doesn't know he's entitled to the supplement and who doesn't request it and doesn't get it. However, in this case, it's easy to survey the seniors residences and to ask the individuals responsible whether they are interested in having a ballot box.
Sometimes the owner has a manager, a coordinator or a nurse working evenings. They may not even vote. They can take the letter, and the owner will never see it. These are our seniors who have worked all their lives and pay taxes. They have the right to choose their representative.
I'll let you respond to that.
Conservative
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
First, the voter information card wouldn't be the only proof of identity. It would have to be combined with another piece authorized under the act. So there's already a safeguard measure in that respect.
Second, we'll have a solution for seniors. Perhaps we should offer them more opportunities to vote. They should also be given the opportunity to comply with the rules of identification.
That said, the concerns you raise are important and significant, and we will have to consider them, including methods for distributing voter information cards to ensure they aren't piled up in the entrances of apartment buildings.
The safekeeping of ballot boxes is an issue that we've discussed with the political parties, and we're still awaiting their views on that. We've proposed various options and we're examining the situation.
Voting with the face uncovered is an issue that was extensively debated in 2007. It gave rise to a bill that did not receive royal assent. I would be very happy to implement the statutory provisions as soon as they are passed by Parliament.
I'm a bit surprised by your comments on mobile polling because it is prescribed by law. One of the returning officer's duties is to identify seniors residences and to actively offer mobile polling. If that weren't the case, there might be reason to discuss the matter in greater depth.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
That's another topic to get back to.
Monsieur Godin, it's your turn.
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome to our committee. With regard to people living in seniors residences, there's a problem because people of a certain age may not have all their identity cards.
Nevertheless, what can be done to help the homeless who do not have identification cards? In the past, a person could sign for a number of persons, and I don't want to cast the blame on you.
What was the problem during the last general election? What are your recommendations?
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
The homeless are indeed a group that have difficulties. We have put a measure in place to enable shelters to issue letters of attestation of residence. A homeless person wishing to vote could obtain proof of address by getting a letter of attestation from a shelter. That letter will have to be combined with another piece of identification, which may be a social insurance card or health insurance card or various other government cards that a homeless person may have in his or her possession.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
One of the problems involved in voting with an uncovered face is the following. A person may present a letter from a centre attesting to his address and a provincial health insurance card. However, in New Brunswick, there is no photograph on that card. Even if someone has a bag on his head, you have to identify him. We can't ask someone who receives these people to know everyone who appears before him. If the person has no photo to show, whether or not that person has a piece of identification, it doesn't change much if you can't see the person's face.
In addition, you don't see the faces of people who vote by mail. That was your argument. If someone wants to walk around with a bag on his head, that's his problem. That doesn't change the vote. He can be at home and vote by mail with a bag on his head. We don't know that.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Indeed, one of the difficulties is that there aren't any tools for comparison.
In certain other countries, the voter's photograph appears on the electoral list. However, that is not the case in Canada, and I don't believe it will be soon. There aren't any tools for comparison, particularly since, in view of developments in Canada's demographics—we shouldn't have any illusions—election workers can't claim to know all the voters. So there's no point of comparison. Moreover, the current act does not require proof of identity by photograph.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
If such proof were required, even people who vote at home would have to send their photographs. You have to tell it like it is. It may look good in front of a camera and on television because we look very intelligent, but in fact that changes nothing. We're causing a program rather than acting.
I'd like to thank you for the bingo card proposal which comes from Michel. It's a very good system. People back home liked that. They didn't all know the whole story behind the bingo card, but they wrote down the names of the people who voted and sent them to the political parties so that we knew who voted and who didn't. It worked very well.
I think you can identify only one person. Does that give the people who work for Elections Canada the right to identify people who appear and let such and such a person vote if they know them?
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Only a voter registered in the same polling division can—
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
What would be the punishment for someone working at Elections Canada who started to play that little game?
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
I'm not sure I quite understand.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Perhaps I spoke Acadian; so I'm going to restate my question. If a person working for Elections Canada is responsible for receiving voters and that person says he knows such and such a person and wants to let him vote even if his colleague tells him that the voter doesn't have an identification card—
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
That would be entirely inappropriate. All voters have to prove their identity and their address.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Absolutely not. It's the voter's responsibility. Elections Canada's responsibility is to inform voters on the best way to do it or on their various options, but elections staff can't identify voters.
That's caused a number of problems because, in rural ridings, elections staff know the neighbours who come and vote at the polling station. That causes tension between staff and voters.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
If I still have some time, I'm going to tell you a little story. I went into a polling station to say hello to people, as the law allows me to do. I met a gentleman whom I knew very well, as well as everyone working for Elections Canada. They refused to allow him to vote, and, when he left, he said he would never vote again in his life.
I think a lot of situations like that have occurred.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Election workers have told us about certain incidents like that.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
All right.
That takes us out of our seven-minute round into our five-minute round. I thank you all for your cooperation so far.
Mr. Cuzner, five minutes.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thank you very much.
I'm a little concerned about my two colleagues here expressing a little bit of trepidation with the upcoming election, and people showing up with bags over their heads. Maybe Montreal Canadiens fans, after getting beat by Vancouver last night, seven to one....