Evidence of meeting #5 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was voting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
I would like to raise one further matter. We also need to ensure...
11:30 a.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
It is unfortunate that you took on this job at a very controversial time, during the controversy regarding the veiled voters. I do not want to remind you about bad memories, because this issue not doubt gave you stomach problems.
You made the news despite yourself, during the last election campaign, because of the ballot boxes that were lost in the Quebec City riding. That also led to charges. We are in politics. We respect each other, but we are not necessarily bound to like each other. So this situation gave rise to accusations. Certain parties accused another party that had suggested a list of deputy returning officers, but had not given any consideration to the Bloc candidates. When they are sworn in, they come under your jurisdiction. You discuss this issue on page 27 of your report, in the highlighted area at the bottom.
I know that the problems facing rural ridings are not the same as those in urban ridings. Could we do something about this? You said that the ballot boxes were in the custody of the deputy returning officers. Could we do something to avoid looking ridiculous and ensure that the situation that occurred in the Quebec City riding does not repeat itself?
11:30 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
That was an unfortunate incident. It was reported that the ballot boxes were missing. It finally was brought to light that the boxes were not missing but they were still under the custody of the deputy returning officers. They were found, and to everyone's satisfaction, I believe, it was determined that the boxes had not been compromised.
How do we avoid this type of situation from recurring in the future? We need to re-examine the procedures. I have already mentioned that, according to the legislation, the deputy returning officer is responsible for custody of the ballot boxes. Between the time of the advance polls and the day of the vote, a week goes by. Should we amend the legislation in order to recall these boxes? Would that be a better guarantee that there will be fewer risks of losing boxes? We will have to analyze the situation. At the end of the year, we will no doubt be back with recommendations, particularly if amendments to the legislation are required.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
We too have several complaints. In British Columbia, the polling stations close at 7:00 p.m. Why? People feel that their voting rights have been violated. They start their day at 8 or 9:00 a.m., just like everyone else, and the polling station close at 7:00 p.m. Let's count the votes later; we will in a final analysis find out who will be elected Prime Minister of Canada and which political party will form the government, as well as the names of the members who have been elected. But for these people, this is totally unacceptable. Is it the legislation that makes this so? Is that is the case, it is up to us to chance this part of the legislation.
We were told that there was a shortage of staff and that it was difficult to recruit people. This is unfortunate, because there are a lot of available people. However, they are wondering whether it is worth their while to spend a day working in a polling station only to lose their employment insurance cheque because of the money that they would be earning that day. They would wind up poorer than they were.
We need to change the legislation to ensure that people receiving employment insurance benefits are exempted, when they want to work on election day. This would not apply to the people who are working full-time for Elections Canada. I am certain that we could get good people to do this work. Moreover, with the current economic crisis, many people could help you.
The other problem pertains to identification. In my riding, there is incredible frustration. In British Columbia there was even a newspaper article about the poll you conducted.
“New rules stop 450,000 Canadians from voting”. Wow!
I saw people going to a polling station in order to vote but they did not have an ID card. Sometimes, in a polling station, you may know a person very well but if they do not have any identification cards, they are not allowed to vote. People leave the station saying that they won't ever vote again in their life. They are frustrated.
The same thing applies to the universities. I do not know whether or not you read the article. A young student had problems voting due to a lack of cooperation. And she was not alone.
I received a letter from Libby Davies, who said the following:
Registered voters were required to line up at the Registration Desk prior to proceeding to their assigned Poll. At many polling stations in the Vancouver East riding, voters were required to line up at a single Registration Desk to show the required identification prior to proceeding to their Poll number and showing the same identification again. The result was long lines and delays that dissuaded or prevented eligible voters from casting their ballot. It was not until around 2 p.m. (Pacific) when Elections Canada's head office (in Ottawa) confirmed with Libby Davies' NDP Campaign Office that voters were allowed to go straight to their polls and the Registration Desk was actually supposed to be more of an "information desk".
It doesn't make sense. We are unable to train our people. I do not want to go into all of the details; you received the letter. I think that the members have done some good work compiling the problems noted in their riding.
I'm going to raise another issue. The legislation states that we can go anywhere in order to connect with the people, but we have to be outside of the building. I went to a federal building in order to shake people's hands. However, an official told me that I was not authorized to be on the building grounds, beside the city sidewalk.
I did stay; I didn't go. But then I had to fight with them for about an hour on the side, and finally the security guard came to me and told me to get lost. I said, “Sorry, call the cops, but I'm staying here. I'm going to exercise my democratic right to meet the people. I am in Canada here. We have people who went to war to give us the right to vote and to be able to meet people. We're not living in a country with a dictatorship. We're going to meet people and let people know who we are.”
I think there is a need for some education about this in the government, in the ministry where they have buildings across the country.
Some mobile workers, people who left in order to work in Alberta, for example, did not have an opportunity to go at all. I called the Elections Canada main office. I was told that there were posters on display everywhere explaining how to vote. I telephoned people directly, in the camps where they were living, and they told me that there was no information there. They checked for several days, but there was never any information.
I see that my time is up, I will listen to the little bit that you can tell me about. We are here to discuss these issues because there were a lot of problems and we will try and to resolve them together.
February 24th, 2009 / 11:40 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Absolutely. I think this is the advantage of the appearances.
The business hours are established in the legislation for every region of the country. If the act is to be amended, that would require the attention of the committee, because Elections Canada has no say over the opening and closing hours of polling stations.
As for staff recruitment and employment insurance penalties for the unemployed who would like to work on election day, you are right. There are two aspects to this. First, work done by an election worker does not represent insurable earnings. Second, if a person who is already receiving employment insurance is paid an amount that is more than 25 % of his or her benefit, he or she will see an equal amount deducted on the next employment insurance cheque. As an example, I would say that an election worker who is paid $195 and who is also unemployed and receiving benefits of $400 will see the next benefit cheque reduced by $95. That reduces the incentive to work for the elections. In any case, these are issues that would require amendments to the Employment Insurance Act. This would at the very least require amendment to the regulations. However, this is completely beyond the mandate of Elections Canada.
You talked about identification issues. This is a new procedure. As I mentioned, generally speaking voters have adapted to it quite easily. I mentioned a few groups who faced certain obstacles. I would simply advise you to be cautious concerning the article that you mentioned. The article is based on a study that was done following by-elections that concerned only four ridings, and it was the first time that identification was required for the vote. I always wait for the general election for a result of surveys. I do not believe we can apply the results of by-elections held in four ridings on a national scale. We must be prudent in that regard. I would prefer to see the results of the national survey that was just held following the last election in order to see if those figures are confirmed.
I finally have Ms. Davies' letter. We will answer her, absolutely.
You raised the issue of access to public spaces, that is to say private spaces that are accessible to the public, whether it is a question of government properties, shopping centres, residential properties, etc. Bill C-31 increases the access of candidates to these sites. You are not doubt correct in saying that it would be beneficial to organize a public information campaign. For the last election we issued a letter from the Chief Electoral Officer recognizing candidates' right of access. This was sent to all candidates. They could easily present that letter to anyone who objected to their presence or to their activities. The feedback I got on this issue was that it generally worked very well, but we did get a few complaints from candidates who found themselves denied access to areas that were accessible for campaign activities.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you very much.
That ends our first round. I've been pretty tolerant with time. We were well over ten minutes in a seven-minute round with a lot of those, but we're getting some great feedback.
As you noticed, Monsieur Mayrand would love to share information with us. As much as I love the oration of the members of Parliament, of course, the answers we're looking for are from that end of the table today. In the next round, if we could, try to get your questions in about half the time you're allowed and let the answers come from the other end. I think we'll be a lot better off and I'll keep my chairmanship of the month award that's been given to me.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
It's a long way from my turn again to get the rest of the answers.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We will try to pick up the pace.
Mr. Mayrand, there are some files I would like to inform you about. In the riding of Laval—Les Îles, the local Elections Canada Office was informed of the fact that some voters had given false addresses allowing them to vote illegally in this riding. The latest news was that in fact there is no news. I am assuming that someone in your office is dealing with this. There must be someone in your office who is studying this complaint concerning Laval—Les Îles.
11:45 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
If a complaint was filed, that is certainly the case.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Could that be verified and an answer sent to us later on? If not, we will make sure that a complaint is filed.
11:45 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
If I understand correctly, this is an issue of false addresses in the riding of Laval—Les Îles.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
That is correct.
In Etobicoke Centre during the first week of the campaign, the Green candidate officially dropped out. Why is it that the name of that person still appeared on the ballot without any attempt to communicate with the voters that this candidate was no longer in the running?
Of course the voters who voted for that particular person lost their vote--it went into the ocean--but is the Green Party getting financial consideration for the votes this non-existent candidate obtained?
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
An hon. member
Yes.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
I'll keep talking so we can see if you're getting translation.
Are you now getting French translation?
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
At your leisure, whatever you would prefer. You have about 30 seconds gone. You're at a minute and 44 or 45 seconds.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Okay.
My question was whether the Green Party is getting credit for the votes that were cast for the candidate that did not exist.
Also, in Etobicoke Centre a candidate did a full riding drop of brochures against the incumbent on the Saturday evening of the long weekend just before the election. An Ontario Superior Court justice described the brochures as containing clearly defamatory material. The judge went on to state that “If the brochure is further distributed, the damage that could be inflicted on the plaintiff's reputation would be irreparable.” Consequently, the judge granted an unprecedented injunction against the candidate and his campaign from further distributing these materials.
I don't know if you have been made aware of this, but the story continues. The candidate appealed. The judge laid down a second injunction. The candidate deliberately distributed materials that were factually incorrect, in this case providing widely incorrect statements dealing with a member of Parliament's attendance record on committees.
Is Elections Canada investigating this matter, and what will be the consequences to the candidate for having put together factually false and defamatory materials at a strategically critical point in the campaign? Obviously that particular candidate dropped that on the Saturday, knowing very well that nobody would have time to reply to, answer, or deny what was in the pamphlet. I can show you in the pamphlet where it talks about his attendance record on committees. It goes as far as naming a committee that does not exist in the House of Commons.
I'm wondering if Elections Canada is aware of this, and what is going to be done about it.
