Evidence of meeting #13 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prorogation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
It is a famous line from Corneille. The fact that they are Alexandrine lines gives it a certain rhythm. “Our trial strokes are masterstrokes, you see.” Then the tragedy ends. He is going to kill someone.
Do you intend to go into politics now?
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
Certainly, the fact that I'm here today—I was invited, I wasn't subpoenaed or anything like that—means I'm very much interested in remaining involved in some capacity. I'm still trying to decide where I would fit into things, whether I would want to get involved in a formal political party, whether I would like to remain where I am right now in this sort of way. But I would certainly like to build on what has happened personally.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Have you figured out approximately how many francophones joined your movement?
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
That's something that's really interesting. As I said, there are only a few dozen or so members who are still active. As for....
Are you talking about Québécois or francophones from across the country as well?
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
If you can make the distinction, go ahead, but I am mostly interested in knowing whether there are francophones.
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
It was interesting. We had less interest in Quebec, compared with the rest of the country, and again, because it was English...there was some discussion that went on in French as well, but I can't give any numbers on it, or even a rough idea.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Merci.
Mr. Christopherson, you may have a quick question. We have a couple of other members who would like some one-offs, and we'll try those if we have time. Our next witness has not poked his head in yet, so we're okay.
Go ahead.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thanks, Chair.
I have just one question, again looking at you as one representative of the younger generation, about to start taking your leadership role.
The role of the official opposition and by extension of the other opposition parties is to oppose: the loyal opposition—loyal to the crown, loyal to the country, but holding the government to account. That's their job, to give the government a hard time, hold them to account. By the same token, there's a yearning across the country for us politicians to work together for the betterment of Canada. What are your thoughts on where you would draw the line between those two conflicting demands? On the one hand, our role is to oppose and hold the government to account, ask difficult questions, give them a hard time. On the other hand, there's the desire for all of us to put that aside and work together, whereby you could be accused of not doing your job as the opposition.
What are your thoughts on that?
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
There's something about human nature whereby we tend to divide things into very hard and fast dichotomies, whereas I prefer to look at things more as duality: these things are not actually opposing but are complementary. Part of answering to Canadians and working together and moving forward on things is asking questions and thinking critically about policy and about legislation and how it's going to affect things.
This comes within parties themselves as well. I'm sure a lot of stuff goes on behind closed doors, as you're coming up with ideas and putting them forward; there is discussion as to the pros and cons and weighing those two things. I don't see them as being opposite.
Simply re-establishing decorum in something like question period, which is probably the most visible way Canadians see everyone here at work, not chasing after scandal.... We want to see the opposition asking important questions about relevant things, not chasing scandals or asking questions about hockey teams or that sort of thing, and to see the government able to answer, and not deflect or bring up Adscam, the Pacific scandal, or anything like that.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you.
We'll hear Mr. Hoback really quickly, and I know Monsieur Proulx would like a question. We'll try to do some one-offs here and we'll just keep trying.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I'll be really quick, Mr. Chair.
Of course, in prorogation the role of Parliament in a minority government situation is different from its role in a majority government case. One might argue that in a minority government you would actually have more power to control prorogation.
Were the members of your Facebook group upset that the minority government—the opposition, at this point—didn't take that control? They could have brought in a confidence motion. That would have been the ultimate decision-maker on whether this was legitimate or not.
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
I'm not too sure about.... I understand, for instance, that in 2008 there was a confidence motion brought forward, and that's how it was prorogued. I'm not too sure how the opposition could have responded. It's a bit beyond my understanding and expertise.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
In a majority government, obviously the opposition doesn't have enough members to bring the government down, and it is what it is. But in a minority government they do have enough members to bring the government down, so that if they were totally upset and reading the will of the people, as they believed, wouldn't that have been the appropriate action?
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
No, not necessarily; I don't think that any time the opposition or Canadians are opposed to something the government has done we would need to rush into an election or anything like that. Government is not about fighting and winning elections. It's about, as we have discussed, moving Canada forward—discussing and debating and that sort of thing as well.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
But in the same breath, you're in favour of bringing in rules and regulations or something around this. Yet I say that the big rule, the big regulation is there, and that's confidence.
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
That seems to me to be an all-or-nothing argument. We have many conventions that guide what happens in Parliament. We don't decide it's either one way or the highway. I think that's the attitude we want to get away from, that it has to be one or the other. We need to be able to have room for discussion and debate to reconsider things and to re-establish certain conventions.
I like the idea that there would be conventions, because it would allow for flexibility when Parliament needs to be prorogued.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. White, I would first like to congratulate you. It is a good initiative. I would also like to thank you for coming to meet with us today.
I joined your group on the Web, but is there not also a site translated into French by a Montreal group to attract francophones?
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, there was. There are little things about Facebook that have funnelled how we went. We originally wanted the title to be in English and French, but there's a limit on how long you can make titles, which is unfortunate. We had a second group created. They basically copied and pasted. I don't recall what happened with it; I know that the majority of members remained on the main group. There were also people who were active... I believe there were Quebec and Montreal chapters created. I know for sure there was a Montreal one, and people were probably more active and involved there. Certainly for some time I encouraged people to communicate in French and I did a couple of posts in French every once in a while, that sort of thing.
It would have been great to have it, to find some way to bring in more members and make it more bilingual, but it's the nature of Facebook.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you. If you have any other good ideas like that for sites, you can count on my joining.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you.
Monsieur Proulx already mentioned that he would buy any T-shirts you're putting out or anything like that.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Of course I would, as long as they're not more than a thousand—dollars.
11:55 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Yes.
We're going to stop there.
Mr. White, thank you so much for coming today. The fact that you're an anthropology student means you could probably suggest to us why we behave the way we do.
You mentioned a couple of other things that I think both bear repeating. You asked a question: "Can a Facebook debate actually become a convention?" Perhaps in the future this is the technology we're heading to, and maybe we will have to be researching that at this committee.
I really want to thank you, because you said that people have become aware of procedures and that it's becoming a bigger thing in the world out there. We think that's because of this committee and the great work that it does. So we thank you for bringing that to Canada's attention.
We'll watch your site, if you'll watch our committee, and we'll see where we end up with this.