Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 18th, 2012

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Part of this bill is much stronger transparency rules as well. That would make it much more evident exactly what those loans were, what the interest rate was, if any, who was providing those loans, and when they were paid back.

One thing I will mention is what will continue to happen is that a candidate's EDA can still lend money. An EDA can borrow money from the party. That will continue.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Right.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

It doesn't change that.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

That seems to be an adequate solution. Without a big guarantee, the signatories that Mr. Martin raised, banks aren't going to be lending candidates money freely unless there are those provisions. I do think the interparty lending makes up for that, and that doesn't exist for those in a leadership contest.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

There is interparty lending but also the rebate. If a candidate was to sign over the rebate for a certain amount—and there are many ways to verify that or to check the worthiness of a candidate, which apparently happens in Ontario—then the bank has something to hold on to there.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Fair enough.

I have maybe a tougher question. What was the genesis behind this bill? By that I mean, how much was it a frustration, from your perspective, over Elections Canada's either inability or unwillingness to deal with these large leadership loans that were just sitting out there? There didn't seem to be much action happening and certainly no sanction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you, Mr. Williamson. Hopefully, that can be answered under Mr. Gill's time.

Mr. Gill, it’s your turn, for four minutes.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to thank the Minister for taking the time to be here with us today to answer some of the questions the committee has.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this and make sure that I understand this correctly. If a candidate goes to a financial institution for a loan, I'm sure the financial institution's going to want some sort of guarantee as to how it is going to be repaid. You mentioned that some of the ways may be by putting up the refund that you may get after the election, and so on. Can a candidate personally guarantee that loan for that total amount?

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

You can, up to the donation limit. Today, that's set at $1,200. You can guarantee it to $1,200.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Assuming that the candidate hasn't necessarily made that $1,200 contribution. Am I right?

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

That's correct.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Okay.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

You can either contribute or make the guarantee.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Or make the guarantee. You're saying that, hypothetically, you can get 20 different people to guarantee whatever, say a $20,000 loan to the bank.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

You can do—

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Assuming they haven't already made their contribution.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Correct. You can do that. The bank can base it, as they do in Ontario, on the rebate, or you can go out and raise funds and not have to borrow as much.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Is there an exemption under any circumstances where the EDA or the federal party can guarantee a loan of more than $1,200?

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

They can provide that loan, and they can guarantee it.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

They can guarantee it, or they can provide that loan.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Yes.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Let's say person A becomes a candidate. The election is called and the candidate goes to a financial institution, gets a loan for $20,000, hypothetically, and signs up for that rebate we're talking about from Elections Canada after the election. Shortly after that, the candidate is disqualified by the party for whatever reason. All of a sudden you have a new candidate running in the same election. How would you address that?

[Matthew Lynch]

I guess a candidate is a candidate when their nomination is confirmed by the returning officer, so I'm not sure that situation could apply in that case.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

If there are odd situations, I'm sure the Chief Electoral Officer can look at them on a case-by-case basis, but at the end of the day the EDA essentially will be responsible for that loan because it was still guaranteed by the EDA. Also, if the EDA is not responsible for it, or if they default on it, it would go to the party. But when that person was a candidate, the EDA was responsible for that candidate and therefore for the loan as well.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Okay. What would be the consequences of—let's say hypothetically—a candidate who gets a loan from more than one institution by guaranteeing that same refund?