Evidence of meeting #56 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was boundary.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
If I may comment, Mr. Cullen, the western boundary of my riding would move farther east, so it's kind of wheeled around to push this boundary down around the quadrant, and that's when it moved into Mr. Cleary's riding in that way.
Because there was an issue about numbers for Avalon, the boundary between Avalon and St. John's East was moved further east into the eastern end of Paradise. That's the name of the town.
Then those numbers had to be accounted for by pushing the bottom of the quadrant into St. John's East, so they tried to put it back to where it used to be, but they didn't quite get that right. This is why it encroached on St. John's South—Mount Pearl. Then they moved the other end of St. John's South—Mount Pearl down to Bay Bulls and Witless Bay.
These are all dominoes based on the changes to Avalon.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Okay. This is what this committee is going to struggle with all the time: our amount of familiarity with these different places around the country, and, as well, this natural domino effect that happens when you try to carve up the country into these ridings.
The last point I want to make is the most compelling part, I think, and it's around that community of interest and the testimony that did come forward from the citizens who are represented here. It's compelling enough. The map-makers at Elections Canada were trying to accomplish something. We need to accomplish that plus, so thanks for your testimony today.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Super.
Are there any other questions from your group, Mr. Cullen?
No? Perfect.
Monsieur Dion.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, everyone.
You agree that other ridings will be affected by these changes. How come there is a domino effect? How did the commission come to make this change in your two ridings because of the change the commission made elsewhere?
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
The western end of St. John's East was in the middle of a town called Conception Bay South. Their first proposal moved it to the boundary between Conception Bay South and Paradise or thereabouts. They then made changes to Avalon as a result of representations being made to the town. They moved the boundary between St. John's East and Avalon farther east, and 7,000 or 8,000 people were affected by that.
In order to compensate for that and to try to keep Avalon, St. John's East, and St. John's South relatively the same, even though they're 11% or thereabouts higher than the quota, they had to add more people to St. John's East. That interfered with the boundary at St. John's South—Mount Pearl. It's almost like a wheel effect; if you move this part of the wheel, then you have to add down here.
These weren't part of the original proposal. There was no discussion of changing the boundary for St. John's East and St. John's South. But that's what we ended up with. As part of the domino, the changes to the boundary of Avalon in the east impinged on St. John's South—Mount Pearl, which was unchanged in the other proposal. I don't think anybody asked to change the boundaries of St. John's South—Mount Pearl.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
From a demographic point of view, I'm a bit lost in terms of how many people will be affected by the change you propose.
According to the numbers, if we accept what they are proposing, your riding, Jack, is 82,223.
How will it be if we accept the change you are proposing, both of you?
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
I think it would be a change of about a couple of thousand, but then that can be adjusted by moving the other part of the boundary on the west. This is what I've suggested in my comments; the boundary can be moved.
There are not a lot of people, maybe 2,000, below Duckworth Street and the Battery, so that could be made up for by moving it a little further up.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
This move is between your two ridings only? It won't affect the others?
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
For 2,000, I suggest you should be allowed to make your pitch to the commission.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
And Mr. Cullen, you're right, it's strictly community of interest. It will weaken the Narrows group in terms of the work they're trying to accomplish in redeveloping both sides of the Narrows.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you.
Do we have any other questions for our witnesses today?
Liberal
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Can Mr. Simms tell us why he did not make this request last summer? Why does he come now?
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
It's a good point.
When we went through with this, I did make an intervention on the boundary itself. There were some smaller communities next to another community, and the commission at that time made the recommendation.
I've never represented this area that I speak of. I made basically the same assumption as the commission, which was that Bay d'Espoir was always the regional name. If you look at it, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, or Nalcor as it is now, always called that area Bay d'Espoir, as one of their regions. They have a huge plant there, a huge generating station. But in fact the communities of interest were never really part of Bay d'Espoir.
I'll give credit where credit is due; the first person I spoke to—both of us were witnesses at that original hearing—called me later and said, “I think we need to make a change”, and I agreed with him. I have his letter, which is at the commission. That's John Whelan, president of the NDP association. He contacted me about it first, and he made the submission as well as I.
So yes, that was the reason; Coast of Bays is actually a relatively new thing. A lot of us in the rest of the province never really caught up to where they are.
And yes, there is more than one bay in the area.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
I find that very convincing, but I suggest that we communicate this information to the commission to help you make your point.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
The commission will accept your suggestion more if there is a rationale as to why it has not been proposed before.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
That's why I called all the mayors. I got in touch with about six mayors who wholeheartedly agreed that Coast of Bays is a far better description of the region.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
This is a suggestion you should probably make, something that was not explained last summer—to explain why there is a rationale for that.