Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 7th, 2013

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I did talk to Fort McMurray, and this is the problem with stats. Right now my understanding is that it's somewhere around 83,000 in Fort McMurray proper—83,000 to 88,000—but by 2025 Fort McMurray is going to be 250,000.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

If we assume that the city, if we want to use that terminology, is around 85,000 right now, and the average population per riding, if you divided it equally, would be about 108,000 in a perfect world, then currently you're only—what, 23,000 under? At the rate of a population increase you're talking about, I would suspect that well before the next census is taken 10 years from now, the city of Fort McMurray proper would be at or above that 108,000 population base.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Absolutely.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I don't know what the commissioners are anticipating when they're trying to make these decisions, but it would appear to me, if all the studies and the surveys are correct, and I see no reason for them not to be correct....

In your opinion, would it not be wiser to have the city of Fort McMurray as a separate seat? This, of course, would go back to having to rejig the entire map and maybe add yet another seat.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Because the Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo controls Fort McMurray and controls the outlying riding, I believe that the regional municipality, without doubt, should be its own riding right now. It would make a lot of sense to do that. It would be the same council. There would be two MLAs, one north and one south. The population already supports that.

By 2020 it's going to be, just on my own projections based on the 7.4% annual growth we've had over the last 10 years—and we expect to have more growth in the future—213,000 by 2020 and 304,000 by 2025, which means the next time we make a change to the constituency in 2025, we're going to have 304,000 people in one riding.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

You're not recommending, though—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'm not recommending Fort McMurray as its own riding; I'm recommending the regional municipality as its own. It would make sense, no matter who represented that riding.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Is that what this map reflects?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

No, it does not. I am putting that forward.... I do not believe, since the municipal census has never been accepted by any board or any government, that it would be accepted at this particular time, so I just put that forward to say to you that the regional municipality should be its own constituency. There's no question in my mind. I think anybody who looks at it independently would have no question afterward. Cold Lake is in the same economic zone, but I believe that it could easily be put into another riding and that the regional municipality could be its own riding.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I have a commentary to you, Chair, and perhaps to the rest of the people here.

Fort McMurray may be a unique situation in Canada, frankly, because of the rapid rate of growth. I know that there are many other urban centres, and we see some rapidly growing population centres in Saskatchewan as well, but they are not growing quite as rapidly as Fort McMurray.

It appears to me that one of the things that the commissioners should be taking a hard look at is that rate of growth, the accelerated growth in some of these faster-growing communities. Rather than waiting for 10 years anticipating it, well before the 10 years the new Fort McMurray would exceed the average population in Alberta anyway.

You're right. It makes no sense to me to deal with it in 10 or 12 years from now. In a situation of a population at 300,000-plus, if the population in the rest of the province is relatively the same, that could be divided into almost three ridings, so why not deal with it now?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I agree, Mr. Lukiwski.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We're going to have to stop there.

Mr. Reid, you asked for some information from one of our guests today. Is there anything else that we would require further in reports or answers from our two witnesses?

Go ahead, Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

One I think we can get right now. I think I know the answer, but I'd like it formalized.

I assume that little sheet on population deviations you passed around is based on the official StatsCan numbers, not the real numbers.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

That's right, yes.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

If the real numbers were used, the two ridings of Peace River and Fort McMurray—Cold Lake would in fact be over the provincial average.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Indeed.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

I just want to comment with regard to this.

There was a question in terms of the effects of our proposal for the change. This documents all the proposed changes. It's not as if we're pushing population for other ridings to somehow absorb; that has all been absorbed with the changes to these ridings. You can see the plus-minus figures; it's all been accommodated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'm not really looking for more testimony. Is there more information we need our two guests to give us?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In answer to the question, I would suggest that on the basis of the current design, about 140,000 people would currently live within that riding of Fort McMurray—Cold Lake.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

All right. Thank you very much to both for coming today and being as clear as you could be with the materials we have. Thank you very much.

We'll suspend for a minute while we allow these two witnesses to leave us and Mr. Calkins to come forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'll call us back to order.

We now have Mr. Calkins before us.

Mr. Calkins, thank you for joining us today. We hope you can share your thoughts with us. You have five minutes for an opening statement, and then the members will ask you some questions.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not sure I'm going to need the entire five minutes. I can assure you, though, that as a member of this place for seven years now, sitting at this end of the committee table gives a completely different perspective.

Mr. Chair, the federal riding of Wetaskiwin is the riding I've had the privilege to represent for the last seven years. I first came here in 2006.

The riding of Wetaskiwin has existed in Alberta since the beginning of Confederation. Wetaskiwin is one of Alberta's original five cities and has been a mainstay in the political scene in Alberta since that time.

The recent changes that have been proposed by the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Alberta basically propose that an electoral district called Wetaskiwin cease to exist for the first time since Confederation.

Based on their deliberations and their judgment, the riding is basically being split into three different pieces. The west country of the Wetaskiwin riding goes to the existing riding of Yellowhead. The northern portion of the Wetaskiwin riding, excluding the first nations band, goes into an Edmonton—Wetaskiwin riding. The southern portion of the riding goes into a Red Deer split riding, with communities like Lacombe and Ponoka and the first nations.

This does pose a lot of questions from my constituents, and it's on their behalf that I'm here. Whether it's been at coffee shops or at town hall meetings put on by chambers of commerce or other interested groups, virtually no one can understand, in the constituency that I currently represent, why the boundary commission is doing what it is doing, so I'm making those representations, as I said, on their behalf.

If we take a look at some of the headlines in the papers that had gone to some of the boundary commission meetings, we see things like “Silencing the rural voice”. We see things like “Wetaskiwin won't matter in [the new] riding”. We see things like “Federal riding commission's report sparks outrage”.

A number of individuals and organizations appeared before the commission. I think about 19 from the riding of Wetaskiwin alone made presentations before the boundary commission, all making requests. Examples include a county or a municipality saying that they wanted their entire county within the jurisdictional boundary of at least one riding.

In terms of the difference between the first set of maps and the second set of maps, the commission did come back and make some very minor changes. I did appreciate that, in terms of keeping the County of Wetaskiwin whole, but that still leaves the counties of Ponoka and Lacombe, which were previously in one jurisdiction federally.

Mr. Chair, I know that you represent a rural area as well. If you know what county you live in, you know what riding you live in. That's a big deal when it comes to election time.

There's no way we can do massive changes to the current set of boundaries, but when it comes to sticking up for some of the smaller communities, we have an east-west trading corridor there, along Highway 11 and Highway 53. Communities like Rocky Mountain House and Rimbey have associations with Sylvan Lake and Lacombe and Ponoka. They don't have much to do with communities like Grande Cache, Hinton, and Edson from an economic or political perspective.

The reality is that our province is growing, and changes needed to be made. I'm here basically to ask for some changes in the boundaries, where I want to include....

I believe you've seen a map from the previous presenters; I am in agreement with what's happened. I think these are reasonable changes that are being asked for in terms of the rural areas and the northern part of the province of Alberta. The bands at Hobbema consist of some 16,000 people; if we were to be able to repatriate communities such as Rimbey and so on into the Red Deer north riding, as outlined on the map, we would be able to also share some of the first nations territory with the Edmonton—Wetaskiwin riding.

Both the communities of Ponoka, which would be in the Red Deer north riding, for lack of better words, and the Edmonton—Wetaskiwin riding.... Wetaskiwin, Ponoka, and Hobbema have always been in the same riding together. To share some of that first nations territory in each of those ridings only seems to make sense. It would keep those synergies and activities together where they have commonality.

The bands on the southern part of the reserve would be closer to Ponoka. The bands on the northern part of the reserve block of lands would be dealing more closely with Wetaskiwin, so that seems to make sense.

I believe you guys have seen the map. I'm in agreement with it, and I'm hoping that the commission is as well.

There's only other thing I would ask, given the history in the area, in regard to the term “Wolf Creek”. Wolf Creek is a small creek that flows through Lacombe into the Battle River. The Battle River runs for quite a distance throughout Alberta and has been used as a federal riding name before. I'm not suggesting that, but Wolf Creek is very much unknown in terms of its geographic location. It's more commonly known for its association to a school district, and I believe it might cause some confusion if the riding were to be called “Red Deer—Wolf Creek”.

Father Albert Lacombe is the namesake of the second city in that riding, which would be made up of the northern half of Red Deer and the City of Lacombe, and he has done extensive work there. There are great historical reasons that I think the riding should not be called Red Deer—Wolf Creek. It should be called Red Deer—Lacombe, reflecting the two largest centres and a great part of our history in that part of central Alberta.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

All right. You're talking to us a bit about some small changes in boundaries, but also about a name change. Is that correct?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

That's great.

First up is Mr. Lukiwski.