Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 19th, 2013

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I have a further point to that very quickly. The Nanaimo—Ladysmith riding is currently 10,000 people above the electoral quota, which is pretty significant, so adding some of north Nanaimo would actually....You could stop the dominoes very quickly, because....

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Monsieur Dion.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Perhaps he could finish his sentence, just to hear why the domino effect will not be huge.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Okay. I'll read a paragraph to you.

By taking in Courtenay and losing Powell River, the population of Vancouver Island North, which is my riding, would increase from—

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

You're reading from what?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

My own notes.

The population of Vancouver Island North would increase from 103,458, which is 1.3% below the electoral quota, to 108,087, which is 3.2% above the electoral quota.

Courtenay—Alberni, the renamed Nanaimo—Alberni, which is James Lunney's riding, would lose Courtenay, and so would go from 110,391, which is 5.4% above the electoral quota, to about 86,292, or 18,000 below the electoral quota. The adjacent riding of Nanaimo—Ladysmith is currently 10,235 above the electoral quota. Both of these ridings could be equalized without having any further impact on other ridings on Vancouver Island. If it were possible to split the difference evenly, both would have about 100,000 people, or 4% below the electoral quota.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Is there no domino effect for other ridings? Did you give the full picture in this comment?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

It's the full picture on Vancouver Island. The mainland is a different question, which we were discussing earlier.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

On the mainland, what must this committee understand of the consequences of your proposition? Will some other colleagues come here and say they disagree with you?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I know that John Weston is planning on attending. I'm not sure about Andrew Saxton, and I'm not sure about Mark Strahl. They would both appear if they were pressed, I think.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Would they say the same as you? Do you know?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

No, they're in concurrence with Powell River staying with the mainland—

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Okay. Do I still have some time, Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I'd like to ask my colleagues to react to some of what the commission has said.

First, for Mr. Duncan, the commission observes that “reasonable access between the North Island area and Powell River is available via BC Ferries...”. As well, with regard to the Sunshine Coast, the commission views the inclusion with Powell River as unfeasible. We'd ask you to react to that.

For Mr. Lunney, the sentence from the commission that I'd like to hear more about is, “The first was the very strong view of Cowichan Valley residents that Cowichan Lake ought properly to be linked to Duncan, not Nanaimo.” They also said that their goal was to keep Nanaimo together, to not split it, which is why “all parts of Nanaimo are now transferred to the reconfigured electoral district of Nanaimo—Ladysmith, which includes Lantzville”. It's the view they have.

And for Mr. Rankin, as I need a question for you, I'd like to hear your views on what your colleagues are saying, since you know a lot more than I do about Vancouver Island.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

You have about a minute left of Mr. Dion's time.

Mr. Rankin, would you like to go first?

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Yes, I would.

I appreciate what Mr. Dion did in reading from the commission's justification. I am very loath to tear apart the work they've done. I think shuffling the deck is difficult.

Mr. Lunney referred to the three ridings up island and the three in the south straddling the mountain called the Malahat, which I think is a very fair way of putting it.

I am very concerned about this committee revisiting the work that was done. I mean, he said it was unnatural to separate Courtenay and Comox, but according to the committee that heard testimony and studied it, they said it was just fine. So there was a diversity of opinion and they came down where they did. I'm concerned about the domino effect. I must be all over the island; it's a small place.

Also, it wasn't clear from Mr. Lunney whether he did confer with my colleague, Ms. Crowder. I wasn't clear on his answer. I've not been consulted as one member on the island.

I'm worried about this teasing out in order to do the Powell River stuff, for which I'm sympathetic, but the consequences, I think, for the rest of us are pretty significant.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

All right. We're well over Mr. Dion's time, but a question was asked, so very quickly, Mr. Lunney, and then Mr. Duncan.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, I think the commission responded to those concerns about the Cowichan Valley by including it. The first incarnation separated Cowichan Valley from Duncan and appended them in an unnatural way. I think the commission did accommodate that by coming up with Cowichan—Malahat—Langford.

To the question about the domino effect on the north island with moving Powell River, that 20,000 simply allows a closer realignment for the two north island ridings with the new one, Nanaimo—Ladysmith. There's an adjustment there, but it does not go beyond Ladysmith, so it wouldn't affect the four southern ridings at all, according to our calculations. It wouldn't be necessary to make any adjustment beyond the Nanaimo one, which is just adjusting that, keeping it closer to the historic representation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Mr. Duncan.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

From 1993 to 1997 I represented North Island—Powell River, a very difficult riding. I'm very familiar with the ferry. The ferry goes the wrong way. It goes from Powell River to Comox, rather than from Comox to Powell River. Any visit to Powell River usually means an overnighter. It is weather dependent; that ferry gets weathered out. It does four round trips a day. The ferry that connects the Sunshine Coast does eight round trips a day and does not get weathered out.

Every presentation said the feasibility of connecting the Sunshine Coast.... The way they think, their culture, all their government apparatus, all their tourism strategies, everything is north-south Sunshine Coast, not east-west Powell River to Vancouver Island.

This is a historical artifact we thought we got rid of in 1997 and it's back, but it's back only because they were trying to address a Lower Mainland problem and Vancouver Island took second fiddle, unfortunately.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think what might be helpful to us, in fact, what would be essential to us is for you guys—Mr. Duncan and Mr. Lunney—to sit down.... It's my understanding Mr. Rankin is here just to say how much he likes things. We're glad to have you say that. I'm hoping other people who like what they got will not come before this committee, or we will be here until this time next year.

With regard to the two of you, you have quite specific instructions. I have, for example, Mr. Lunney's map. I was trying to trace it on the Elections Canada map. I think what we really want to have is a version of what Elections Canada does when it provides the legal description of ridings—that the boundary will follow this road to that point, will stop, go there—and then lay it out for all the boundaries that are relevant to your ridings, that divide the two of you—you have it there, good—and also, all other ridings that are affected through whatever dominoes might exist. I think this would cause Mr. Rankin peace of mind. The reason he wasn't consulted is that nobody's proposing changing the boundaries of his riding. I am proposing changes to my riding boundaries. I intend to consult only with the one riding it affects. I will not consult anybody else. The same thing, I'm sure, applies here.

Something like that allows us to sit down...and in addition to giving a general description we can say these are the exact consequences we are either endorsing or not endorsing. That would be enormously helpful to us, and obviously for you guys and for any other riding that is affected, a boundary that is not touching between you two, but between Chuck Strahl's riding and John Weston's riding, or whatever.

I have one last thought before I turn the mike over. Regarding ferries, you have my empathy. I don't know if I have as bad a problem as you do, but a year and a half ago, during the all-candidates debate, we had a debate on Amherst Island in Lake Ontario in my riding. I had booked to stay overnight; the rest of the candidates hadn't. There was a question as to whether the weather would cause the ferry to be cancelled. Things like that go on when you have islands. We should all be sensitive to that.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

As a matter of interest, I already have five ferries in my riding. I have a community at the end of 63 kilometres of gravel road and a community at the end of 42 kilometres of gravel road. I'm dealing with isolation, long distances, travel, ferry schedules. Adding this on top is unrealistic.

I have some pretty detailed maps. The only way they've connected Comox to the rest of the riding is with one little road along the waterfront here. This whole area is the future expansion of Courtenay, which would cut Comox off from the rest of my riding. This is the growth area. This is where they're going. It's coming up. They had to be very inventive to do this.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

That looks like one of those congressional maps from the States that they gerrymander, to be honest.