Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 2nd, 2013

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Yes.

I think Mr. Allen and I have—

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

As a percentage of the provincial quota, what does that mean?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Right at the edge of the two, I think the minimum threshold is to be approximately 84,0000, and the maximum threshold was to be about 126,000 or 127,000. They fit within the threshold, but it actually defeats the purpose, or at least one of the main principles in Niagara, of what redistribution was supposed to do, which was to equalize this out.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Are these mostly urban ridings?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

No, I would say that I have the most urban riding. In fact, I have the only urban riding of the three.

Mr. Allen definitely has some urban and he also has some rural areas. The other three ridings are a mix of urban and rural areas.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Would you say that since one riding is more rural than the others, it's maybe a justification for this riding being less numerous?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

No, I don't, because I think the commission put together a really sound strategy. Currently, the Niagara West—Glanbrook riding could flow very nicely with respect to another piece of St. Catharines that already has a rural component of St. Catharines in it. Adding the additional piece would simply strengthen what the riding makeup is.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

I'd just like to comment quickly on the quota.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Quickly, because I have only a few minutes.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Very quickly on the quota: the report states here that 86,000 would be 18.53% below the provincial quota, so my riding would be 18% below the provincial quota, according to the report.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

That is 18%.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

That is 18.5% below the provincial quota.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

You have heard Mr. Allen's concerns about his communities. Why do you not agree that community interest must also be part of the equation?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I do, actually. In fact, that's why I'm here today.

I think that our community of interest would be significantly changed, based on the boundary changes, and I think the St. Catharines community and the Greater Niagara community are more fully served under the first iteration put forward.

One of the main questions I asked in my survey of the people of St. Catharines was about the sense of community. Again, each and every person indicated that the strength of a sense of community was—

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Is there a way to solve this discrepancy problem, and to solve Mr. Allen's problem at the same time?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I think there is. I think the third iteration gets there, but I don't think it's quite there yet.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Did you talk to each other in order to solve your disagreement?

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

We agree to disagree.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

To be honest, I'm having a little bit of difficulty understanding where Mr. Allison and Mr. Dykstra are going and whether they're back to the first iteration, or whether they're okay with the third one with some modifications.

If we're speaking to the third map, which is the one you have before you with the modification they proposed in written statements, Mr. Dykstra's proposal to move to the western urban boundary of St. Catharines is an issue between him and Mr. Allison. It doesn't affect the Welland riding whatsoever.

The issue is that Mr. Allison proposes to come into the west end and the south end of St. Catharines, which is presently part of the Welland riding. If that's the proposal, yes, I object to Mr. Allison's coming in to take that piece of southwestern St. Catharines. Actually, under his proposal, he would come in from the southwest and finish at the 406, which would mean that St. Catharines would be divided into three bigger pieces than it is now.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

If I still have time, Mr. Chairman, my question is—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Sure, one more question. I'll be flexible with you, Mr. Dion.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Is it possible to solve this discrepancy problem within your three ridings while not affecting Mr. Allen's concerns too much? Or is it impossible?

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

I would say that it's a challenge.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

This started off on a bad foot, based on some comments that Mr. Allen made publicly. We've talked about that and we have addressed that issue.

I think we've come some distance to being able to resolve it, but I do think that Mr. Allison is right, that there is a way to strengthen this both from a sense of community perspective and a size perspective by making one more step, and that's what we're asking for here today.