Evidence of meeting #79 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
That's unfair. You put me under an obligation to get an answer about that.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
You don't have to ask that question. I'm just saying we can get an answer if we can.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
But I want my minutes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Unfortunately, Mr. Cullen, I will focus on my questions.
I just want to give you a last opportunity, Mr. Mayrand, to maybe add something on the two main concerns that I think Canadians will have after we have this meeting with you. I mentioned that in French at the beginning of our meeting. The first concern is that you have not been consulted by Minister Uppal about the next legislation.
The second concern is the possibility that the Conservative Party will continue to derail the proceedings for your own investigation, as they have done with Justice Mosley up until now. I'll give you an opportunity regarding these two concerns. Is there a way you will be consulted in the coming days about what is happening now with the new legislation?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I'm always available. I would suggest, however, fortunately, that we have the mechanism that provides an illustration that allows me to bring those reports to the attention.... I'm assuming the government will consider the recommendations that are brought forward in my report. I think there were statements to that effect.
Along with everyone else, I will have to see what's in the legislation.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
That's a very interesting report, but as you have seen, we have a lot of questions on the report. I would like the minister to take the opportunity to do the same.
With regard to the current investigation and the need to have the full cooperation of every one, I ask my Conservative colleagues to speak to their government and to be sure they stop doing what they did with Justice Mosley.
Is there anything you'd like to say about that?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I think investigations are being carried out by the commissioner. I think he is facing challenges on various fronts from time to time. I have confidence that he will be able to overcome them, especially if we get through the recommendations that we've put forward.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Speaking about these recommendations, on page 33 of the English version, you state that personal information collected by political parties, misused by local campaigns, remains the responsibility of the parties. My question is, did you use the word “campaigns” purposely, or is it something that will also apply outside campaigns?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
To me, we were focusing on the context of those deceptive communications. But at large, my view or my recommendation is that parties, like any other organization, should be subject to the universal privacy rules—
Liberal
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Always, and to me it's an issue of trust between Canadians and political entities.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
One thing is of great concern to me. If we only concentrate on election campaigns, we will miss many things that occur before the campaigns.
My other concern regards third parties. If a party wants certain things done by a third party that are illegal or unethical— it could be a lobby group that shares the same cause—how can we tackle the problem and ensure that this will not occur?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Laying down privacy rules based on these universal principles assures us already that the information must be used for the purpose for which it was gathered. There are all kinds of rules intended to protect and assure voters that, in this case, the information is used for the intended purpose only.
A problem may occur if Elections Canada sends the electoral lists to candidates or to parties. The only thing in those lists would be the names and addresses of voters. This information is limited. The legislation is clear as to what can be done with this information. One of the issues we are facing is that, more and more, the information contained in a list is simply integrated into party databases. This raises all kinds of issues. We will have to raise them during an advisory committee meeting with the political parties.
However, once this information has been integrated into the party databases, it could be argued that the information has lost its intrinsic quality and that it is no longer an electoral list. As a result, the provisions of the Elections Canada Act do not apply. That is why, in the report, I wrote that at the very least we would have to enact new regulations on personal information protection, on the use, gathering and management of this data by political entities.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Do you ask the political parties to tell you, upon request, to whom they gave this information?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
We could of course discuss that, but we promote the following mechanism. In order to be able to receive the electoral lists in the future, parties will have to get the confirmation of an independent party guaranteeing that the privacy rules are followed and that the protocols are in place. These rules should stipulate that the information can only be shared for the purpose for which it was gathered, that is to solicit funds or to reach voters, to ask their opinion or to obtain their point of view and not for any other purpose that would be foreign to political activities.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
We would therefore have to know with whom this information is being shared.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
They should be obliged to inform Elections Canada of this.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
We feel that an expert should have to attest to the fact that the information is being used only for the purpose for which it was collected.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
I have a bit of time left.
As far as automatic counting is concerned, you propose that we follow New Brunswick's example. Have you looked at the rate of rejected ballots? Does that increase?
I have friends in New Brunswick who tell me that if you vote for a mayoral candidate without voting for a single candidate for councillor, the ballot could be rejected.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
There may be complications, particularly in the case of a municipal vote because it is even more complicated. At the federal level, it should not happen because you are only choosing one candidate.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you.
We've completed the questioning of our witnesses today. We'd like to thank them for coming.
It has always been special, having you visit us, and I'm sure we will have you again soon. We'd love to be able to deliver redistribution to you on time and complete. It has been a nice break today, not to be doing that. This committee will return to that on Thursday, and we endeavour to get you all of the information on new ridings on time for your next election.
I suggest that we now go in camera to discuss two or three issues. If we could do that fairly quickly, we'll finish on time.
[Proceedings continue in camera]