Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Reid.
It's interesting, because he finds himself in the place that we found ourselves with regard to the motion that he moved last week, that is, where there's now something that he doesn't feel there's enough information for him to vote confidently in favour of. When it came around to Ms. May and the independents, the initial suggestion from the government was to vote for or against this, but without any information. So perhaps the tables have turned somewhat. Note the discomfort.
What I am going to suggest, when the chair returns, is this. And I will be seeking this from the government side as well. Mr. Reid, Dave, Tom, and others have suggested some concerns about the way this is constructed. I was going to interject to offer that any committee can choose by a majority vote to move in camera to defend and protect a witness' privacy and security. That's what is done. This motion wouldn't preclude that. That's an argument that we can make.
But having heard that some municipalities and some provincial legislatures.... I've just been handed the standing orders that guide the Quebec legislature on in camera discussions. They have an interesting nuance on this, that:
Any committee may resolve to meet in camera; but no motion to that effect shall be deemed carried unless a majority of the members from each parliamentary group shall have voted in its favour.
That's an interesting adaptation. In order for a committee to go fully in camera on something that isn't guided by these types of outlines—security of the person, labour contracts and whatnot, including national security—you'd have to have a majority of the parties represented saying, yes, this is a good thing. We all understand why this has to go in these unique cases that Tom talked about. You can't foretell everything.
What I would suggest to the committee, to move a friendly amendment to Madame Turmel's motion, is that there seems to be interest around this idea of having something, because let's admit it, nothing guides us right now.
Earlier Dave asked for different examples. There was one this past summer dealing with telecommunications companies at the industry committee. The government moved the whole telcos meeting and the resolution in camera, because there was actually some embarrassment about the government's policy and the effectiveness of the policy on opening up the wireless carriers for Canadians, which hasn't been working so well.
Regardless, it was a political decision. It had nothing to do with national security, or some witness being exposed to risk on their life, or labour disputes. If he wants an example, we have that, but there are many. In the light of day we can all admit that when majority governments have a moment that's embarrassing at a committee, they would rather see the embarrassing moment, the vote or whatever happens, go away.
I am going to suggest, and I seek the favour of Madame Turmel on this, that pending the two studies that are immediately placed before us as a committee—one around MPs' expenses, the urgency of which you've all described, and the second on Mr. Bezan's question of privilege, which we hope to do simultaneously, but we'll see how the committee study works out—we immediately take witnesses after that.
Perhaps, Madame Turmel, we can even stand this motion, but I will look to have, through the clerk, a supplemental put on this, that the committee design a succinct bit of research on this, not extensive but succinct; come up with some witnesses who would satisfy the concerns of Mr. Reid and Mr. MacKenzie about what the rules might be; and seek, as a committee, to design some rules that guide us on when we go secret and when we go open.