Evidence of meeting #31 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Wosen Yitna Beyene  President, Ethiopian Association in GTA and Surrounding Regions
Carolann Barr  Executive Director, Raising the Roof
Leslie Remund  Associate Director, RainCity Housing and Support Society
Wanda Mulholland  Community Development Coordinator, Burnaby Task Force on Homelessness
Nathan Allen  Manager, Pigeon Park Savings, Portland Hotel Society
Abram Oudshoorn  Chair, London Homeless Coalition

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Members, we are ready to start. We're a little late and I apologize to our witnesses, we had votes in the House that ran a little late and that meant we ran over here. Some of us ran on a bus, but we ran over here and we will now get started.

Again, we're here televised in public and with some video on the fair elections act, Bill C-23. Our witnesses in the first hour tonight are from Raising the Roof, Carolann Barr; and from RainCity Housing and Support Society, Leslie Remund; from the Ethiopian Association, Mr. Beyene.

Is that correct? Did I get your name pretty close to right?

7:05 p.m.

Wosen Yitna Beyene President, Ethiopian Association in GTA and Surrounding Regions

That's right, that's good, yes.

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

You're from the GTA, from Toronto and surrounding area? Super.

Normally, we start with a short opening statement if you have it, five minutes or less.

Mr. Beyene, we'll start with you since you're on video. We always do that in case we lose the connection, then you've at least got your input in.

So if you'd like to start with an opening statement, we'll let you do so.

7:05 p.m.

President, Ethiopian Association in GTA and Surrounding Regions

Wosen Yitna Beyene

Thank you very much, Chairman

Good evening, everybody.

My quick presentation this evening will focus basically on one major element of the bill itself, Bill C-23. I will focus on civic participation in the electoral process and particularly refer to the experience of Ethiopians in Toronto. This is all based on my observations and my engagement within the community.

My role in the community is president of the association. I'll just give you a quick briefing about the association. It has been serving Ethiopians and other newcomers for the last 34 years. It was established in 1980, and we have been providing services for settlement, crisis, for seniors, for youth, HIV/AIDS, and all other types of community initiatives within the community. Although our capacity has been significantly reduced recently, that's part of our mandate and focus, the community service we provide, and again, we are not limited to providing service to Ethiopians. We provide service to all other eligible newcomers as well, based on the specific program or service we offer.

To give you a quick profile of the Ethiopian community, although we don't have a very clear number, we estimate that about 50,000 Ethiopians reside in Toronto and the GTA. Some of the challenges in the community, based on some of the research, are the huge unemployment and underemployment in the community and some barriers in terms of access to services and programs in very specific areas.

The community is relatively new to Canada, here for the last 30 to 40 years. As a community, although we are trying to address the specific needs of the community, there is a huge gap, and there are a lot of areas that still need to be addressed, one being the active participation of community members—Ethiopians—in the electoral process of different levels of government in Canada, the municipal, provincial, and federal governments.

So on this line, I will just quickly go through my presentation about the bill itself. I would like just to quote the remarks given by the Chief Electoral Officer to this committee, I believe, the Standing Committee on Procedures and House Affairs on March 6:

It is essential to understand that the main challenge for our electoral democracy is not voter fraud, but voter participation. I do not believe that if we eliminate vouching and the VIC as proof of address we will have in any way improved the integrity of the voting process. However, we will...have taken away the ability of many qualified electors to vote.

So with this quotation from the Chief Electoral Officer, I would like to emphasize the key wording about voter participation. I will quickly go through my points: one, how we can engage a community like the Ethiopian Association to be actively involved with voting and the whole electoral process; two, the community engagement that we already have—we engage our community members—could be an opportunity to disseminate and educate the community members with civic education about the Canadian political arena; and three, how we can encourage voters. I don't have concrete data or figures to use here, but from my understanding and observation, I would assume not that many Ethiopians really vote, again, because of factors like social exclusion or inclusion elements, employment, time spent with the family, and time spent at work in support of families.

These are generic features that we hear of in other ethnocultural groups or ethno-specific groups, but again, this is true also in the Ethiopian community. So we need to have a strategy here, along with Bill C-23, which I understand has quite a broader scope than what I'm trying to present here.

But in the participation of our community, the community engagement work can really be done through another organization like the Ethiopian Association in partnership with the electoral office and other relevant organizations. For example, Canada's democracy week in September could be an opportunity where we can educate our community members in the electoral process.

I was involved in training with the Maytree Foundation here in Toronto. It started in 2011 to educate community members on how the different levels of government work. That type of model is also very important in tapping into the existing resources.

I know there are a lot of documents and resources in civic education but there also needs to be access in appropriate language and cultural ways because one of the elements here is the experience of new Canadians. For example, Ethiopians in their home country or in the country of origin and their political culture...political participation has oftentimes a negative impact on the participation of these new Canadians in the Canadian political system. Their experience may not have been a positive one. That will leave them in a situation where they always behave indifferently to the political system. They think their voice wouldn't make a difference or generally they are more reluctant to be part of any political engagement.

The education process has to be customized in a way to address the uniqueness of each community, and each voter as an individual or as part of a group or community. It is at that level that an organization like the Ethiopian Association could be a resource or a potential partner with other existing resources to disseminate education.

Again, first-time voters are also an issue. We need to work at the early stages in engaging parents and young voters within the community to get this education and awareness. That's actually another element. We know that parents and schools are playing a very significant role in the decision-making of their young children in the voting process. So we need to spend resources and effort in educating parents because it will have a compound effect. Although children can get some basic civic education in the schools, which also has an effect in educating their parents, we need to work at both ends to make it really significant and meaningful.

I am aware of the time so this would be my opening remarks.

Thank you very much.

7:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Super. Thank you very much.

We'll go to Ms. Barr, for five minutes or less if you could, please.

7:15 p.m.

Carolann Barr Executive Director, Raising the Roof

Thank you, everybody.

My name is Carolann Barr. I'm the executive director of Raising the Roof. We're a national charity focused on long-term solutions to homelessness. We do that through partnerships with front-line agencies, research, and public education.

I want to thank the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs for inviting me today to speak on Bill C-23 to amend the Canada Elections Act. There has been lots in the news, and I was watching some of you being interviewed by Evan Solomon just a little while ago. A lot of what I'm going to speak about, I think, is what a lot of people are saying around this issue. I'm going to focus my comments around my expertise around working with vulnerable populations, and specifically the homeless.

I have over 20 years of experience working in this sector, working in front-line agencies, managing programs. I'm in different health and social service sector environments. I've worked with a diverse group of people—youth, adults—who are facing different issues, from mental health to addictions to homelessness to poverty. Really, I have devoted my career to helping reduce barriers that people who are disadvantaged face.

In fact, I was part of the original consultations; I remembered that as I was being invited here. I believe it was in early 2000. It was by Elections Canada and it was round table discussions about how to help people who were struggling with accessing their identification for various reasons, and how to help them vote. So I'm very pleased to be here today.

Elections Canada accepts the voter identification cards as proof of residence in specific locations, such as long-term care facilities, on campuses for students, and it really is a common-sense initiative that has worked. Certainly, I feel very proud to live in a country where you can support your neighbour in this way to help them vote.

Ensuring that all Canadians can exercise their right to vote is what makes the voting process a legitimate process. As we all know, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 3, guarantees that all citizens have the right to be involved in the election of their governments and the right to vote in federal, provincial, and municipal elections.

Bill C-23 proposes to get rid of the cards and disallow them as proof of identity or residence. This would certainly have a serious repercussion, potentially, and infringe on the rights of individuals under the charter. Some groups of electors, as I've mentioned, seniors, students, first nations, people who have recently moved, the homeless.... There's a recent report that estimates there are 200,000 homeless people in Canada. We know many of them struggle to keep their ID and maintain their ID.

The government claims that eliminating the cards will cut down on electoral fraud. I think we heard you talk about that, Wosen, and it certainly is much more of an issue around voter participation. My understanding is that there really isn't clear evidence about fraud. My question, then, is: why, if this is working, is this being put forward at this point?

At Raising the Roof we work closely with our partner agencies and work directly with the homeless. From my experience in working with these agencies, I know that we all feel that individuals who face losing their housing should not be further marginalized by being unable to exercise their right to vote. We need to ensure that the voter information card is maintained as proof of identity.

The bill also revokes vouching. We know that 120,000 people in the 2011 election relied on that to vote. So it was a significant amount of people. Also, considering the number of homeless, we know it's significant. The Chief Electoral Officer has indicated that there was a 90% accuracy rate in evaluating these. So we don't want to, as the chief is saying, take away the last safety net for those who do not have the necessary documents.

I'll just quickly talk about homelessness.

Homeless Canadians were denied the right to vote, but measures were put in place over the years whereby they could use a shelter as an address. In terms of where we've come today with the voter information card and vouching, I'm really hoping the government will listen to everyone's comments and keep this in place.

People don't have ID because they're struggling with issues, not because they don't want to follow the rules. I think it's really important that we not revert to a time when the most marginalized in our society were denied the right to vote. People who are otherwise disadvantaged have already lost a great deal, and they should not lose their charter right to vote.

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you, Ms. Barr.

Ms. Remund, five minutes or less for you, if we can, please.

7:20 p.m.

Leslie Remund Associate Director, RainCity Housing and Support Society

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Committee members, thank you.

Thank you for inviting RainCity Housing and Support Society to speak to the committee. l'm Leslie Remund. I have worked for RainCity Housing for 18 years. I'm currently in the role of associate director, responsible for the day-to-day operations of our programs.

Here's a little bit about our organization.

RainCity Housing is a service delivery organization, incorporated in 1990. We offer a wide range of housing and support services to the people in Vancouver. We have over 500 supported housing units, 100 emergency shelter beds, and a variety of specialized support programs, including outreach and clinical health services. Our primary operations are located in the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver, one of the most vibrant and yet poorest neighbourhoods in Canada.

I'm going to talk a bit about the community, because that's what I have to offer here.

The Downtown Eastside of Vancouver is unique in its concentration of low-income housing, most of which is operated by non-profit organizations like ours. The overwhelming majority of the 18,000 residents live below the poverty line. Eighty-eight per cent of our community members are renters. In terms of housing security, one-third of those live in single-room occupancy hotels, one-third live in non-market rental suites, and 6% live in community care facilities. We have over 1,600 people who are homeless, living either in shelters or on the streets in Vancouver.

As mentioned, single-room occupancy hotels comprise a substantial stock of low-income rentals. These units are small rooms, most often with communal bathing and shared cooking facilities. It is an intimate environment, with strong internal communities, yet these hotels often lack the security afforded to those who live in their own apartments. In the emergency shelter system, many people share a common large space with mats on the floor and little privacy.

We have a significant seniors population, making up over 21% of our community, and urban first nations peoples, who constitute 10% of our community.

RainCity Housing and Support Society has issue with two aspects of Bill C-23, the fair elections bill. These are the removal of vouching and the removal of the use of voter identification cards as a means to verify a person's address. My following statement will focus on the practicalities of voter identification for our community members, as this is the grounds for which we have expertise.

There are currently 38.... I've been hearing 35. But I went to the website and counted. So I might be off a few.

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

We had 39.

7:20 p.m.

Associate Director, RainCity Housing and Support Society

Leslie Remund

I went on the elections website. Math is not my strong suit. Social work is more my deal.

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Don't go by me.

7:20 p.m.

Associate Director, RainCity Housing and Support Society

Leslie Remund

Okay.

We currently have 38 or 39 authorized documents listed by Elections Canada. While this may appear to be substantial, it is deceiving. As I examined the list through the lens of our community, the number of real options for our citizens is substantially lower.

Many of the listed authorized identifications are attached to housing, education, property ownership, or access to conventional public services. Drivers' licences; Canadian passports; fishing, trapping, or hunting licences; utility bills; vehicle ownership and insurance; residential lease; mortgage documents; pension plan statements of contribution; insurance policies; property tax assessment notices; outdoor wildlife cards or licences; firearms licences; and employee cards are not compatible with poverty and for those who have little economic or social mobility.

The use of cheque-cashing services rather than banks is commonplace in low-income communities as the requirements to show valid ID are replaced with other systems of verification. The use of cheque-cashing stores means that the person will not have a debit card, bank card, or a bank statement.

Other listed authorized identification are neither relevant nor attainable, in our experience. ID related to education—student ID cards, correspondence issued by a school, college, or university; or Canadian Blood Services cards, as I have never known a blood drive to happen in our community; or liquor identification cards, which are non-existent in our province.

Some listed pieces of identification have been modernized and no longer carry a person's name on the card, such as our public library cards that contain only a bar code now and a signature.

Expecting citizens in our community to obtain and retain these forms of ID is unreasonable.

As I stated earlier, RainCity Housing and Support Society works with the reality of a person's current situation. Our work is not abstract; it is practical. People arrive at our services with few or no possessions. Large amounts of our front-line staff efforts go toward helping people secure necessary resources, including ID.

We have collectively put thousands of hours into applying and securing identification for people. The process is most often neither quick nor simple. To get an ID, you often need an ID. The starting place is a birth certificate. Birth certificates depend on the financial resources to pay for the fee, knowledge of your mother's maiden name, and your parents' places of birth. The wait time, depending on the province of birth, can be four to six weeks or longer. These are real barriers for the people we work with.

The unique circumstances of our community led the Province of B.C. elections body to add identification options before our last provincial election. In February 2013, prior to our provincial election, Elections B.C. approved the use of prescription labels on medication bottles as an acceptable form of authorized identification for our community alone. This is recognition by our provincial government that the citizens of our community require special consideration to protect their inherent right to vote. We expect no less from our federal government.

Deficits in communities are offset by their strengths. One of the strengths of our community and other low-income communities is the reliance we have on one another. This is where vouching has its strength—one citizen helping another. We believe that vouching should be retained unless or until some other acceptable method can be found to ensure that all Canadians have the right to vote.

A core mission of RainCity Housing and Support Society is to promote the social inclusion of our people, recognizing that most of the people we work with are and have been excluded from participating equally in society. The right to vote is a fundamental right of citizenship and we ask that voter registration be broadened rather than narrowed.

Thank you for your time.

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you very much.

We'll move forward with questioning.

I have Mr. Richards, first. Let's do a seven-minute round and see what we have left.

Mr. Richards, go ahead.

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB

Thank you.

I appreciate both of you being here and also you, Mr. Beyene, by video conference.

I would like to focus on you, Ms. Barr, and Ms. Remund.

You both have organizations that deal with homeless or those who are nearly in that situation. When we look at these issues that you're here to talk about today I think everyone in this room would share the goal that we all want to make, which is that every Canadian who seeks to vote has the opportunity to vote. I think we also share the goal of seeking to ensure that those votes are seen by all Canadians to be done in a fair process. Some of the concerns that have come in about the vouching, for example.... I also think it's important that we ensure that we are giving everyone who wants to vote the opportunity to do that.

I'd like to go through some possibilities with you and ask some questions about the process you've used in the past to help those clients you serve to be able to use their right to vote. I understand that vouching is one of the things you have used in the past.

First, let me ask, because when I was doing a little bit of research into this I discovered that in many cases shelters will in fact serve their resident with more than just providing a roof over their head.... Obviously, you're doing a lot more for them. You're trying to help them find a way to get back on their feet. That's something you should be commended for.

One of the things you do is to try to help them get to a situation where they have some ID and proof of who they are because they require it for a lot of things. Even to be able to help find employment and these kinds of things.... What I have been told by many of the provincial governments is that in many cases shelters will help someone get a birth certificate. That's the first and most basic form of ID that allow for some of the other IDs to be had. You did mention, Ms. Remund, the 39 pieces of ID. It is 39. There's a number of them that must be used. Some of them can prove identity and others can prove address. Some can prove all of course. So there are number of options.

You did go through some that wouldn't apply. You're absolutely right that in many of the cases that you indicated, for the clients you talk about it wouldn't probably apply. Certainly, the service that shelters do provide for getting the birth certificate for someone, that would obviously provide the first piece of ID that's required. They would then require something to prove the address.

I assume that you're aware that one of those pieces that can be used as identity to prove address is an attestation of residence from a shelter or a soup kitchen. Obviously, if you were able to provide that in addition to the service you already provide for obtaining a birth certificate, it would give the necessary two pieces of ID. The reason I point that out is because I think the vouching process would be a far simpler way for you to be able to help clients...to serve in the vouching process. The reason for the vouching process, as I'm sure you're aware what's required there, is someone who lives in the same poll can only vouch once for an individual. Obviously that becomes, I would assume, complicated for you because if you had, say, employees vouching, they would have to live in the poll where the shelter is located. Second, you can only vouch for one person per employee. I'm aware of some volunteer programs that exist to do that, however those probably are in a bit of a grey area because we don't know in fact whether there is that relationship. On Elections Canada's website the examples they use is a neighbour or a roommate. Obviously, that shows an ongoing relationship with somebody to prove who they are.

I'm curious about your thoughts because of the fact that many shelters do provide that birth certificate and are paying for that for them. Also, there's the availability of the attestation of residence. Whether that is something you feel might better facilitate enabling you to help your clients to be able to vote in an election....

What are your thoughts on that?

7:30 p.m.

Executive Director, Raising the Roof

Carolann Barr

I've been involved with ID clinics in different services in and around the Toronto area. I certainly think, yes, getting ID and getting help to get clients to get ID is always a focus. We know it's very important for them to start to stabilize their lives and hopefully look at some opportunities to get housing.

I know that those programs are always in jeopardy of shutting down. On the one hand, yes, it's a good first step and it's important. But there is limited funding. I was talking to an organization the other day who was telling me the importance of their ID clinic, not just for homeless in the community, but for other people who maybe had a fire in their house and lost their ID. It can apply to a lot of different people. Of course, the funding for that program is in jeopardy. While someone is working on getting their ID, whether it's through an ID clinic or having some—

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB

But I'm certain that, for a program like that, there would be a lot of support among the community. I think you would find there would be many civic-minded people who would be more than inclined to support something like that, not only to allow someone the right to vote, but there are so many reasons why that basic idea is necessary. I'm sure you'd find much support—

7:35 p.m.

Executive Director, Raising the Roof

Carolann Barr

I know. It hasn't been federal money, but it has been provincial money for those programs. I know from working in the sector for 20 years that they're always in jeopardy of shutting down. So, yes, I agree. Getting ID is important. It's always a responsibility of a social service worker to get people that kind of help and get them on track.

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB

I haven't much time, so I'm going to interrupt you. I apologize for that.

The other thing is the attestation of residence. Is that something you feel you could provide to your clients as a service? Is that something you would find difficult to provide?

7:35 p.m.

Associate Director, RainCity Housing and Support Society

Leslie Remund

We have provided those. You have to understand that, when a person comes in, we're triaging a multiplicity of issues with that person. What we have to do is prioritize, often. We're adequately staffed, but the work is extremely challenging. We have a triaging process, and often people aren't staying long enough—

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB

I'm going to interrupt once again. Would you find, though, that this attestation—

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB

—especially if you have a form, might be an easier process than running a volunteer program to find people to volunteer to vouch?

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

I'm invisible again.

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

We'll get very quick answers from our witnesses, because we're not going to make our second round if we don't meet—

7:35 p.m.

Associate Director, RainCity Housing and Support Society

Leslie Remund

I don't think one is better than another. I think we need as many as possible.

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Super. Thank you.