Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 19th, 2013

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Sills, for your time today. It's been very helpful and very informative.

In the creation of IPSA, was the vote unanimous in the House of Commons?

[John Sills]

That's a good question. I'm not sure I can quite remember that. I think it may have been, or with very few in opposition, because I think all MPs recognized at the time, given what had happened, that it was important to create IPSA. Also, it went through extremely quickly. I think it was a couple of months at most for the whole process.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's impressive.

Another big question is, are the British people satisfied? Do they feel that their parliament has turned the corner and is rising to the level of accountability they expect?

[John Sills]

That's a very good question.

We do survey the public. Support has gotten better; it's just under 40%. The last time we surveyed the public, 40% of them thought things had gotten better. But of course, the stories are over. You may have seen, only yesterday, that an ex-MP pleaded guilty over expenses. That has nothing to do with the current Parliament, but an ordinary member of the public won't necessarily make a distinction.

So I think it's fair to say that most members of the public will probably say things seem okay but that we're still not that trusting. There's a long way to go, I think.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Were there any further measures proposed that you didn't take that would have gone even further? You mentioned receipts as an example and said that you had decided not to go there. Was there anywhere else that you could have gone, that was looked at, and that you chose not to go to but may go to in the future to bring the rest of the Brits onside?

[John Sills]

One things that is asked frequently is, why we don't just have an allowance for something such as accommodation in particular, to make it nice and simple but less transparent. We have considered this in the past but think the time is certainly not right for it at the moment. You'd lose the transparency, and that's the absolute key for us at the moment.

We have refined our rules. Some of the rules on things such as accommodation for family members, for example, have been relaxed over the years. We're always open to change.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

You mentioned that the budget is about £6 million. I have two question, and you may not be able to answer.

Do you have any idea how that £6 million compares with what was being spent before, when doing somewhat comparable work, but in house?

My other question would be, is there any level of pay, and if so, what is it, for the members of IPSA, in terms of wheels within wheels within wheels?

[John Sills]

On the first one, the overall cost including expenses is still slightly below what the House of Commons used to cost. It's very hard for us to make a meaningful comparison between ourselves and the House of Commons administration, because of course they were part of a bigger organization, and so a lot of their overheads wouldn't have been as clear, because they would be in the wider organization. It's pretty difficult to say precisely what the difference is.

In terms of the amounts we pay our board members, I'm afraid I can't remember them right now. They're on our website, and I'd be very happy to provide the information to your researchers.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That's fine; our researchers can find it very quickly.

I'd like to follow up on a question Mr. Lamoureux asked, which I thought was really good, because it ties into the notion I had put forward earlier that there—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

The phone line's gone dead—because your time ran out.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

As soon as the Liberals and the NDP get together in any way, they just shut everything down.

[An hon. member]

I was starting to bond with you.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I know—for a big moment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

David, now you have extra time. Go ahead and ask more questions.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thanks, Joe, old buddy, old pal.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We lost the line. We'll get it back and we'll carry on from where we were.

Your time had run out anyway. I'm not punishing you.

Mr. Reid, you will be up when we return with our guests.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

While we're waiting, were you asking about the cost of administration now versus before, or were you asking about total MPs' expenses?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

No, I was talking about the admin. In other words, how does £6 million to do this now compare to the cost of doing similar work prior? He said actually it's probably a little less, but it was difficult to do apples to apples.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I wasn't sure if he was answering a different question from the one you asked.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I don't think so. I thought his answer made sense.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We'll suspend for a moment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We're back.

We're sorry about the technical difficulties, and we'll go right back to questions.

Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Sills. It's Scott Reid here.

I just wanted to inquire about your description of your processes for meeting, which sound like they are somewhere between what we would refer to as in camera and open meetings. You say that you publish minutes of the IPSA meetings. I gather that you do not publish verbatim transcripts. Is that correct?

[John Sills]

That's correct. We just publish a summarized minute.