Evidence of meeting #69 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gifts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I have recommended that a fundraising provision, similar to the one in the act, be put in the code. In my discussion, I point out that the conflicts wouldn't arise as often for a member, as a member of the government.
11:45 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
But it's still worth considering. If you're sitting on a committee and studying some sort of a subject, and the person who has an interest in the subject....
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
No, I think that would help us all.
On the issue of fundraising, there are many complicated areas of how you end up receiving funds, whether someone directly comes to you, someone donates, you're not necessarily aware, and you find out six months later they donated. Having a clarification of rules would certainly help.
The issue of gifts, I find, often causes....Have you defined a financial figure? For example, an MP might be asked to go to four events on a Saturday night. It's $100 for each of them. Personally, I never thought that I was being lobbied, I thought that was my job.
Are you saying that if I go to the Heart and Stroke gala, and I don't buy my ticket, that I'm....
11:45 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
What I'm saying is that if somebody who has an interest in getting something from you buys you a ticket, that's where you've got a problem. If some random person who hasn't got any common interest—
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
So, someone buys me tickets to a hockey game, and they work for telecom, then that would be a question of them offering me a gift. I get that.
11:45 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
And we would have to look to see if you had some kind of a connection with telecom.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
But going to gala events in your riding, which is part of your Saturday duties as an MP—
11:45 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's a different thing.
11:45 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I've always said that you've got lots obligations, all sort of random events in your riding, and that's fine.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
The issue of friend. I know the Lobbying Commissioner's come forward with a recommendation about defining the role of friend. Do you feel that there needs to be a clarification on friend?
11:45 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I actually don't feel a need of a definition because I've sort of sorted out what I think a friend is. I don't object to there being a definition. I would have no problem.
I know there's an amendment in the Senate at the moment. It's related to friends, but it's not the same issue.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
For example, someone comes to me who I've known since school. He's interested in a project and I think it's a good project. I'm doing my role as an MP, but if I'm promoting in any way a financial interest, from someone who comes to me, who's close to me, that would be a different—
11:45 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
If they can benefit financially it does. Yes.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you very much, Mr. Angus.
Mr. Lamoureux, for seven minutes.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Dawson, great to see you.
I do have some questions related more to the processing. Perhaps I could get a better sense of numbers from your office.
How often do you actually get requests, that come to your office to look at members of parliament in particular, dealing with conflict of interest or issues related to your office, issues that you need to at least look into?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Often enough. Do we have the statistics, Martine?
We get many more requests under the act than under the code to begin with. Usually, it's public office holders who are under the most scrutiny.
How many have we had?
11:50 a.m.
Martine Richard General Counsel and Acting Director, Reports and Investigations, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
There have been 41 this year.
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
But that's combined, act and code.
11:50 a.m.
General Counsel and Acting Director, Reports and Investigations, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's combining the act and the code.
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Under the code, we don't get that many.
11:50 a.m.
General Counsel and Acting Director, Reports and Investigations, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Under the code, this year, eight. And just for information purposes, last year, under the code, 15.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Those are just individual members where you've received a request to look into and investigate.
How does that represent the last half-dozen years? Is there an increase in the number of requests that are coming in?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It took a little while for people to notice. After about two years I got a number of requests, and then it gradually declined. These are not big numbers to begin with, so it's hard to say.
The combination requests are in the order of 40. They have been the same right through from 2010. But under the code I have seen a bit of a decline.