Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 12th, 2015

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I appreciate that. You're very optimistic that the government listens to good ideas and makes changes when it comes to election procedures. The fact is that there's an awful lot of us convinced that every bloody thing they've done is meant to be a piece of voter suppression to make it more difficult. That's what we believe. This looks like one more piece of it.

I appreciate that you may have offered an amendment that would not only mitigate this, but maybe make things better. In the absence of accepting that, we're going to be left with this. According to your successor, it's going to be problematic, and I think I'm hearing you say the same thing, notwithstanding your great idea, which we're going to look at seriously. But if this is the change, as it stands, the current Chief Electoral Officer believes this is going to be a cause of potential confusion at voting stations across the country.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

Obviously, I share that view.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Very good, thank you.

In the time I have left I want to come back to Bill C-50. It now says that if you're voting abroad, you can apply to be put on the list to be considered to vote only after the writ is dropped. If you wouldn't mind, it's obvious, but I'd like to hear you say why that is problematic. Second, can you think of anything that is broken that this would fix?

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

With respect to the first question....

I'm sorry, I've mixed up the two. You had two questions in there.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Don't do that to me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Why is it a problem?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes, why is waiting until the writ has been dropped a problem?

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

It's a problem because there will have to be verification of the documents that are provided to the people at Elections Canada, and there may be a problem with that. They may not be able to trace a document to which the elector has made a reference.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Excuse me, sir, but it would make sense if that were done six months before. Those things that have to be done anyway could be done, and they would be done in time for the election, all set, ready to go. Is that correct?

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

I proposed a minimum of 30 days. The committee may feel, and the Chief Electoral Officer may provide you with advice, that it should be 60. I thought 30 might be sufficient, but I'm not putting my hand in the fire on this. I'm saying you need to do it before the writ, especially if it's a fixed election date.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Right, but this says you can only do it after.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you, Mr. Christopherson.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm looking for a reason.

Thanks, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We'll go to Mr. Reid, please, for four minutes, or thereabouts apparently.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

First of all, like everybody else, I want to extend my appreciation for your willingness to come to the committee and to offer the truly unique insight you have—at least a unique insight among the living with regard to elections, referendums, and all such things.

I wanted to actually ask, is this quite literally the first time you've publicly advocated the provisional ballot idea? I can't remember. We did Bill C-23. Did you not comment then?

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

In the first instance, I do wish that my recommendations will continue to be from someone who is alive.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

As do we all.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

But it's because I've been thinking more about the judgment concerning Mr. Opitz. It's called the Opitz judgment. I hope that everyone appreciates that. That's what it is, by the Supreme Court. I am saying there are repercussions to that. If there are mistakes that happen during the process, the right to vote is not vitiated. You can't say, “There was a mistake here. Don't count that ballot.” You can't do that, is what the court said.

I'm saying, if there are mistakes what else would happen? Our neighbours to the south have provisional ballots. Other countries have provisional ballots. I think we're going to be faced with that in the very near future, if not as a result of this round.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

There are really two separate, potential uses for provisional ballots going on here, then. One is, as you mentioned, in the case of Mr. Opitz's election, where a number of ballots couldn't be validated. Had the provisional balloting been in effect, I gather you're saying that although the vote count would not have been very fast for those ballots, we could in each case have guaranteed that either (a) it was a valid ballot or (b) it was not, leaving no lack of certainty.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

Right, and it would remove the need to go to court to have that proven and remove the grounds on which it could occur. I want to remind the committee that even though the results are officially proclaimed usually within a day or two, there are seven days under the statute. You can take up to seven days as a returning officer. All we would do is say, “Okay, take your seven days,” and wait for all this to happen.

The number would be small in those cases. We're not talking about hundreds of thousands here because people would gear up for this. There might be 20 in each riding, or an average of.... You can handle 50 ballots in no time at all.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

The second stream is that it could be used, you're saying as well, for Canadian voters overseas, to give them time to validate the various issues that are hard to otherwise establish. Is that correct?

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

The provisional balloting for people abroad would be to take care of the average 1,000 electors who vote from abroad and whose votes are cast aside because they come in after six o'clock. That happens right now.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Right.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

Those people took the trouble. They voted. Six o'clock is good. At 6.01, forget it; they fall.

There are about 1,000 at every election. It varies like this, by the way, but I'm saying on average...and that's a lot.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

There's some kind of provision in the United States, at the federal level, to allow for certain kinds of overseas voters' ballots to be included as long as they arrive within x amount of time—48 hours or a week. Am I right?