Evidence of meeting #106 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A video is available from Parliament.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
No, it's other activities too. It includes things like surveys.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Door-to-door canvassing, rallies.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I guess in the writing of the bill—it's big and I haven't been through all of it in detail—we define third parties as a person or a group who conduct election advertising, other than a candidate, registered party, or electoral district association.
Which part of the bill broadens the definition of third party in terms of political activity?
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
There is some broadening of the scope. I don't know the exact numbers.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
The challenge we have is that we're going to have to, under the government's direction, move quickly through this bill, being able to cite and locate the legal remedies that you've outlined. The only definition I read of a third party is that definition.
All the limits we're talking about in terms of spending and declaration, as far as I can read, are about advertising. Of course, as you've said, there are a whole bunch of activities.
It would be very helpful—your office having constructed this bill—to be able to point and say “advertising, and this, and this” all fall under the restrictions that we've placed under Bill C-76.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
We'll get it to you by the end of the meeting.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
That would be very helpful.
You feel that these limits are being placed because the minister referenced this...and it's something we've looked through—some of the B.C. cases—about charter rights.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Yes.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Of course, you feel that you've hit the exact right spot.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
That's right.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
It is still a provision with the federal government, when introducing legislation, to put it to charter lawyers to find out how charter-proof the bill is.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Yes.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
There used to be a verification test; it had a such and such probability of surviving a charter challenge.
Has this bill been subjected to such a test?
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
We have been working with Justice and with lawyers to try to find that balance.
It's a very difficult balance between freedom of expression and what's fair and just in a democratic society. We've been working to do that, and that informs the pre-writ period and also the writ period, as well the constraints guiding third parties.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Mr. Sutherland, I'm going to be very specific with you in terms of that.
There used to be an 85% probability test applied to all federal legislation before it hit the House of Commons. Of course, it's a somewhat subjective test. You ask a bunch of lawyers whether this will survive a charter challenge, and you get a bunch of answers. There has to be a high probability of survival.
My only question is, did this bill go through that test?
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
We have worked with Justice lawyers to get that answer.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I smile, but this is actually quite serious, in the sense of—
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
There was a tabling of the charter impact statement.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Yes.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Okay.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Let me ask about the philosophical roots of this. Let's argue from the third party's side of things for a moment.
If I'm a third party advocate—I'm working for a think tank, an NGO, or a union—why should I be more limited than a political party in my ability to spend money legally, to receive money, either from my organization or through donations, to raise the issues that I think are important?
Why are political parties so special?
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
First off, I don't think I could convince you—