Evidence of meeting #106 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andre Barnes  Committee Researcher
Allen Sutherland  Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Manon Paquet  Senior Policy Advisor, Privy Council Office
Jean-François Morin  Senior Policy Advisor, Privy Council Office
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon
Stéphane Perrault  Acting Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Anne Lawson  General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Elections Canada

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Okay.

How much time do I have?

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

None.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

That answers that.

Thank you.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

You're welcome.

Once those foreigners register, do they have to register every election, or are they now on the list?

5:35 p.m.

LCdr Jean-François Morin

They are actually on a special register, the register of international electors. They are on that register until they either ask to be deregistered or they come back to Canada.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

How do you find out if they die—like, to get off the list?

5:35 p.m.

LCdr Jean-François Morin

That's a very good question, Mr. Chair. I don't have the answer off the top of my head.

That said, there are provisions in I think part 4 of the Canada Elections Act that deal with the national register of electors. There are information exchanges with, for example, Citizenship and Immigration and the CRA that allow the Chief Electoral Officer to be notified of a deceased person.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Cullen. If it's okay with the committee, after that we'll just do open format for anyone who has questions still.

Mr. Cullen.

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I guess if they stop sending Christmas cards, it's one way to know if they're no longer with us.

With regard to privacy, when I asked the interim CEO of Elections Canada what the current limits are on how parties handle the information they gather on Canadians, he said there are very few to no limits. With regard to what the parties do with that private information and their legal ability to sell it, if they so choose, is it being made illegal for parties to collect data on Canadians and then sell it to some third party, if they choose?

5:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office

Allen Sutherland

The approach in the proposed legislation isn't focused on illegality other than the.... If you don't do it, you get deregistered.

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

If you don't do what?

5:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office

Allen Sutherland

If you don't provide a policy.

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Right now, Bill C-76 says tell us what your policy is, and if you don't tell us what your policy is, then we may deregister you.

5:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office

Allen Sutherland

You will be deregistered.

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Yes, but the policy can simply say very little to nothing.

5:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

The bill doesn't require any enhancement of Canadians' privacy.

May 28th, 2018 / 5:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office

Allen Sutherland

You are correct. What it does do is create transparency. Presumably, if you do have a policy that you put on your website that says your policy is to share the privacy indiscriminately, Canadians will judge it accordingly.

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

So the bill doesn't prevent parties from doing bad things, it just forces parties to tell voters when they're doing bad things.

5:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office

Allen Sutherland

Yes, including the selling.

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Why not ban the selling? I don't understand. I mean, you hope political parties don't do it, yet....

When I talked to the CEO of Elections Canada, it was about something that we had just watched. We had just witnessed how powerful data can be, not just in the hands of political parties who are vying for power themselves but in the ability to manipulate data and to expose voters to misinformation through that manipulation. This is a core threat, I would argue, to our democratic institutions. Would we agree with that, that the new technologies and the new tools that are now available to those looking to sway public opinion are what we used to do but on steroids? I don't understand why we don't have more—

5:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office

Allen Sutherland

I don't think it's the case that you can sell the voter rolls, so I think that is—

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

No, not the voter rolls, but—

5:35 p.m.

Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office

Allen Sutherland

But that's the information that Elections Canada comprises.

5:40 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I understand, but in some European countries, a voter can phone up a party and say, “Tell me what you know about me.” The party has to say, “Well, we know your address and information. We also acquired information that you signed a petition in 1990. We know that you registered this.” Parties collect a data-rich source. They're trying to. The Liberals used to brag about it. They bragged until recently, until Cambridge Analytica, about just how they won the 2015 election: great data management, great data harvesting.

I'm wondering if there's any provision under Bill C-76 that allows a Canadian to petition a party to give them even the source points of data, i.e., “What points of data have you collected about me?”