Evidence of meeting #106 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
I would be happy to answer questions on the substance of the bill, because I don't want to interfere with the committee's work and the independence of the committee on this, so if you have questions on the substance, I'd be happy to answer them.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
Let me just as an example, then, say this. When the Harper government pushed through the Fair Elections Act, would you say that there was an appropriate amount of time for debate in committee?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
As I said, I'm happy to answer questions on the substance of the bill here, Mr. Richards.
Actually, when we talk about working with others and ensuring that there is a substantial amount of input from other parties, 50% of this bill has been agreed to in principle by PROC and was worked on over the course of 2016 and 2017. I hope you see some of your work reflected in here. A big part of putting this bill together was definitely ensuring that the voices of different parties were reflected in this.
Furthermore, 85% of this bill is based on the recommendations of the CEO of Elections Canada, following 2015, to improve elections and to ensure we're upholding the highest level of democracy and integrity. I look forward to discussing the contents of the bill itself.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
I appreciate what you're saying about 50% having been studied before, but I'll point out that there was a significant amount of study done when the Fair Elections Act was passed, and I would hope that we would do the same here.
Since you're not willing to answer any questions about your thoughts in that regard, I guess, what about in regard to the House of Commons itself? Would your government commit to having at least as much debate in the House of Commons as there was under the Harper Fair Elections Act?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
Again, Mr. Richards, I'm happy to discuss the contents of the bill. Since you have me here, this is probably a good time to ask about that before I have to turn it over to officials.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
That's wonderful. I appreciate that. I would love to do that, and I would love to get some answers to some of the questions I'm asking as well.
Both you and the acting minister while you were away have said numerous times that you were open to amendments by the opposition. What would your thoughts be in terms of amendments? Let's say, for example, that there's an amendment that would have a donation limit for third parties being the same as it is for political parties. Would you be supportive of an amendment such as that?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
I wouldn't want to comment on that right now. I'd want to see the substance of the amendment and how it's worded before that, but we are open to amendments, so if you do have some, I would entertain them.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
Okay. I guess it's great to say that you're open to amendments, but you've just indicated to me that you wanted to talk about the substance of the bill. I'm now trying to do that and I'm asking you questions about amendments, and now you're telling me, well, you don't really want to comment on the substance of the bill, so I'm not quite sure what's left on that.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
Okay. I guess we'll have to try it again in the next round and see if we can get some answers then.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Minister Gould, welcome back.
From the reports from Elections Canada, how would you describe the incidence of voter fraud or attempted voter fraud within Canadian elections? Would you characterize it as a high incidence level in terms of democratic countries or relatively low?
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
It was one of the arguments used by the previous government when they pushed through their voting changes unilaterally. They had the support of no other party.
You reflected particularly on women. I'll reflect on first nations in my constituency who have gone through this process, some of whom only have gained enfranchisement, or the right to vote, within their lifetimes. They've shown up at a polling booth where the polling clerk was a relative who was unable to vouch for them, nor was anybody else in the polling station, who may also have been related and, in some of the smaller communities, was certainly known to them. No one was able to vouch for them. They're often low income and don't have the proper ID. They're sent away from the polling station.
From the perspective of somebody who just in their own lifetime has gained access to our political conversation to then go through an experience, which is actually quite public, of being turned away and disenfranchised, with, as Mr. Richards talked about, all the evidence pointing in the direction that there is no sweeping voter fraud, using either the voter ID cards or vouching, can that experience not inform the way we consider the use of either of those tools to allow people to vote in our general elections?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
I think so. I think the reason I and the government feel so strongly about the voter information card and vouching is precisely to enable Canadians to have access to the right to vote. The right to vote is in section 3 of the charter, ensuring that people who have that right are able to cast a ballot.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
That section of the charter doesn't say a lot. It says Canadians shall vote.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
It doesn't say that they shall vote with a driver's licence or shall vote if they meet these various requirements.
I want to talk about other voter rights. Do you believe in a voter's right to privacy pre-writ and throughout the course of an election?
Liberal
NDP
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
I appreciate the question. When putting this legislation together, I did draw heavily on PROC's recommendations. I know you weren't on the committee at that time when this came to the fore, but PROC had actually said not to do anything with regard to privacy at the time. Putting this forward I think is a good first step in terms of ensuring that there are privacy standards—
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Let me challenge two things.
One is on that first relating of how PROC said nothing about bringing the parties under political privacy. There was conversation. It was Mr. Christopherson who was sitting in this chair, not me.
Second, things have happened since then. We've seen Cambridge Analytica, which your government gave a contract to. We've seen the effects of data mining through social media, and the ability to manipulate elections—I won't even say attempt to manipulate; I will say manipulate—through that ability to gather unbelievable amounts of information not just about voting groups, but about individual voters, to try to send them only certain information, some of it true, much of it not, as seen in both the Brexit experience and the recent U.S. presidential election. Many privacy experts and the interim and potentially permanent CEO of Elections Canada say that we need to do a lot more than Bill C-76 does when it comes to protecting voters' privacy.
Is your government open to doing more in considering bringing political parties under the privacy laws of Canada?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
I would say that with regard to the private companies that were mentioned—Facebook, Cambridge Analytica—they are covered under the privacy laws of Canada.
