Evidence of meeting #123 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clause.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
I don't think we should be engaging in taking away someone's ability to run for elected office lightly. I don't think we really heard any evidence on this aspect, and I don't think this is something we should proceed with at this point.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
We're ready for the vote.
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 52 agreed to)
(Clause 53 agreed to)
(On clause 54)
For clause 54, we have CPC-21.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
This is essentially that voter information cards are not an acceptable form of ID. We have just seen in the media this week examples of refugee claimants who received voter eligibility cards in the mail. If they were to not say anything, complete them and send them in, they would receive voter information cards and be on the electorate list.
We feel strongly that they should not be used as an acceptable form of identification in voting. I think that this example we just saw in the media provides great evidence of that. We don't know how many of the voter registration cards were issued at this time to persons who were not entitled to them. This is just one case and one example. It leaves us, as the opposition, to call into question the validity of the voter information cards as acceptable forms of identification.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
If I were a betting man, I would say the jury's not still out on this, but we'll go to Mr. Graham and Mr. Bittle.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I cannot think of a part of the Fair Elections Act that was more offensive than the restriction of the VIC as a voting identity.
Liberal
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
What would you say, then, to the example that just happened?
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Again, at the end of the day, we're hearing it coming out, and it's shocking to hear that it's refugees, that the refugees could vote. We're afraid of this “other”. We're carrying on this dog-whistle politics that seems to put itself into Conservative Party policy. Previously in the Conservative Party government, we heard from witness after witness that there is no case of voter fraud.
Who does this help? This helps my grandmother, who gets the card, puts a magnet on her fridge, goes with her voter card, goes with her health card, and goes to vote at the election day poll. Under your provision, she wouldn't be permitted, because we're afraid of this possibility, this Republican Party idea that there's voter fraud out there, that there's potential that refugees may be able to vote. There's no evidentiary basis apart from stirring up fear in the Canadian population.
We heard from witness after witness and we heard from Elections Canada. I can't support this.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
I think what Canadians are most worried about is the legitimacy of the electorate. A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian, but we must ensure that it is Canadians who have obtained this right to vote. This example, which was in the media this past week, specifically identifies a case of individuals who did not have the right to vote potentially ending up with these cards and being counted in the electorate when they are not a legitimate part of the electorate.
I believe that Canadians are just as concerned, if not more concerned, about maintaining the legitimacy of the electorate.
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak, Mr. Chair.
I want to support the amendment presented by my Conservative colleague. I urge my colleague to be cautious, because his interpretation of the intent behind such an amendment seems to reflect what he is denouncing.
I will give the example of Quebec. We heard the same comments following the 1998 election, when there was a phenomenon of identity theft, what was called the $10 votes. As a result, there is now a requirement in that province to present photo ID.
According to Quebec's parliamentary tradition, the electoral law cannot be changed if there is no consensus. It isn't even changed by a vote, as was mentioned earlier; there must be a consensus.
We had to go to court as a result of this phenomenon. I invite my colleague to read the Berardinucci decision. The latter had appealed, but the Superior Court of Quebec ruled in favour of the plaintiffs. So there was an organized system of identity theft when there was no obligation to show a voter card with a photo.
At the federal level, I was pleased to see that voters could show several documents to the scrutineer to be able to vote. If it was as restrictive as the current system in Quebec, where showing photo identification is mandatory, I might be able to understand that people would rant and rave about it, and say that this would prevent people from voting. In Quebec, it's just the way things are. Before even being asked, people present photo ID and don't feel mistreated or anything.
The legitimacy of the electoral process is fundamental. A voter card is something that can be duplicated. In Quebec, during a general election, people were able to pay others to assume the identities of other voters. People had the nerve to go to the same polling station and swear on the Bible that they had not already voted. It isn't just in Quebec that such a thing can happen.
I think the integrity of the electoral process is much more important. There are plenty of cards or documents that can be presented to vote in a federal election. The voter card is more of a reminder. It allows the election to take place in an orderly way, people find out where to go, and the vote is seamless.
If we allow the voter card to be used as a piece of identification, we open the door to the duplication of these cards by malicious people who know the electoral process, and by people elsewhere.
That's why I support the amendment. I urge my colleague to be cautious: we aren't here to stigmatize each other.
Thank you.
LCdr Jean-François Morin
Indeed, the Quebec Election Act contains an obligation to present photo identification; only five pieces of identification are permitted. However, there is a major difference between the Quebec and federal systems: in Quebec, voters only need to prove their identity, while in the federal system, voters need to prove their identity and place of residence. That's why many more pieces of ID are authorized for federal elections.
Liberal
LCdr Jean-François Morin
No, of course. Bill C-76 would lift the prohibition on identifying the voter information card as one of the potential pieces of identification that can be used, but if these amendments are passed, someone presenting himself or herself with a voter information card at a poll will always have to show at least a second piece of identification to prove his or her identity.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
There is no free federal document that proves both the identity and address of a person. The bill requires that proof of address and identification be presented separately; both are required.
I don't agree with any of your remarks.
I will read to you what Elections Canada posted on Twitter this week.
“Recently, people have been sharing inaccurate information about voter registration and ID. We'd like to clear the record.”
This is from Elections Canada directly.
“Elections Canada mails voter registration letters to potential electors. ... These letters say the recipient is not registered to vote. They invite the recipient to register “if” they are a Canadian citizen and at least 18 years of age.
“Voter registration letters for potential electors are not the same thing as voter information cards. ... Voter information cards are cards we send at election time to registered voters only.
“When a potential elector goes to register themselves, they must sign a statement to the effect that they are a Canadian citizen, aged 18 years older.
“The voter information card is not currently accepted as ID. At no time have electors been allowed to vote by showing a voter information card as their only piece of ID.
“Bill C-76, currently before Parliament, would allow the voter information card to be used as a proof of address. Elections Canada would not accept the voter information card alone—it would have to be shown with another accepted piece of ID that proves their identity.”
A voter information card provides access to proof of address. That's all it provides, and that is a very important point.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
We'll have a recorded vote on CPC-21.
(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 3 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 54 agreed to on division)
(Clause 55 agreed to)
There was an amendment to propose a clause 55.1, but it was a casualty of amendment NDP-1, so that disappears. There are no amendments on clauses 56 to 60.
(Clauses 56 to 60 inclusive agreed to)
There was a new clause 60.1, but it was also a casualty of NDP-7.
NDP
