Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 18th, 2018

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Does that require unanimous consent since it has been adopted?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

It doesn't change the substance.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

And it's correct in the French.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The Spanish is way off.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

So that removes the line conflict.

Okay, Mr. Nater, thank you for bringing that up and I'm glad you're making such careful....

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I'm here to serve.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Yes, that's impressive.

We're at CPC-163, but it cannot be moved if Liberal-38 passes because it amends the same line as Liberal-57. I'm sorry, this can't be moved.

Liberal-58 can be presented by Mr. de Burgh Graham.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

This is related to foreign funding of third parties' regular activities. It will allow the court, having found a third party guilty of an offence related to the use of foreign funds, to impose an additional punishment equal to five times the amount of foreign funds used in contravention of the act.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

What does that do, in simple English?

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

It creates a punitive.... What is it called when you get additional penalties based on the gains? I'll ask the lawyers.

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

In addition to the penalty imposed by the judge under section 500, if a third party is found guilty of having used foreign funds, then the judge could impose an additional penalty over the punishment that was imposed of up to five times the amount of foreign funds that were used in contravention of the act.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That's exactly what I was trying to say.

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

If you use a contribution of $5,000 from a foreign origin, a fine of $10,000 could be imposed, for example, and then an additional penalty of $25,000.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Is there discussion on this amendment?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We'll go to CPC-164.

Stephanie.

[Stephanie Kusie]

This has tougher anti-collusion definitions and penalties that essentially result in a third party that's found guilty of offences under sections 349 and 351 to cease being registered as a third party.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Is there any discussion on this?

Mr. Graham.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Morin, can you explain the effect of deregistering a third party, given that they don't run?

[Stephanie Kusie]

They get sucked into a big black hole.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

I'll make a technical comment first. We would need to verify, but in the chapeau at new proposed subsection 500(7), I think a few of these provisions that have been mentioned have not been adopted or carried. We would need to verify that.

The concept of deregistration of a third party is currently foreign to part 17 of the Canada Elections Act.

Is it...?

[Trevor Knight]

It does not exist in the act. I guess the consequence—I haven't studied this too closely—would probably be that then they cease to have obligations under the act. One unintended consequence of this might be that they couldn't be found guilty of the offences that we....

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

We'd let them off the hook.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

But they could be found guilty of not being registered.

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

not really, because they would be deregistered as a result of the act, and it would also put into question the requirement for them to present a financial return after the election.

I am really unsure of the entire scope of this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

There may be some unintended consequences here.