Evidence of meeting #133 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commissioner.
A video is available from Parliament.
Hamilton Centre, NDP
Maybe you hoped it would cover up your anti-democratic process.
Stephanie Kusie Calgary Midnapore, CPC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, it's always lovely to see you.
My first question goes back to Mr. Christopherson's. In what way do you feel that the appointment of Mr. Johnston is democratic? I received a phone call from you the morning of the announcement, saying that this is who the candidate is. There was no consultation with me or the other parties, as we are hearing now. In fact we didn't even receive a short list.
Again, I think we're all in agreement here that it's not the quality or the integrity of the candidate, but the process. We don't know the process. For us, there was no process.
Perhaps you could expand on how you feel that was a democratic process when none of us were consulted in regard to not only a short list or discussion of candidates beyond that but the selection of the candidate himself. How is that democratic?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
All of us agree on the integrity of the nominee we have put forward, and in fact each member of this committee had the chance to question Mr. Johnston, I believe it was two weeks ago, on his plans and his intentions.
I strongly believe and stand by the fact that he is absolutely the right person for this job and that he will ensure a fair process when it comes to ensuring that those two debates happen, so that as many Canadians are included in the process as possible.
I take issue with the fact that we did not consult because, absolutely, this committee played an essential role in coming up with the proposal that we have here before you today with regard to leaders debates. Canadians across the country—more than 14,000 Canadians—submitted during our online consultation, as well as at the round tables we held with experts, academics and stakeholders.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
Thank you, Minister. I'm very happy to hear you're comforted that we weren't provided the opportunity to consult.
Do you have similar feelings with regard to the fact that the appointment was not brought through the House of Commons, which would have allowed for adequate debate, as well as a vote with regard to the candidates? Do you have some regrets or remorse over that, and were you to be involved in a future process, would you hope that a selection would involve a more democratic process through the House whereby there would be debate and the opportunity for consensus within the House?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
I won't prejudge a future process, but what I do think is important to note, as I have reiterated several times, is the fact that we have put forward a two-step process. This is an interim measure to test it out to see how it goes in 2019. We have mandated the commissioner to come back to this committee and to the House with a proposal for how to move forward. That is something I think will be quite important in terms of how we create a stable process moving forward. I'm sure that this experience will inform the commissioner's suggestion and recommendation, following the 2019 election, on how leaders debates should be conducted.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
We are calling this an independent commission, yet it's funded by the Liberal government, it was created by the Liberal government and it's the Liberal government that decides the criteria for political party leaders to participate within the debate. Given all of that, how can we possibly say that this is an independent commission?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
If you take that line of reasoning, Ms. Kusie, then you would question the independence of any entity that has public funding, which I think is not the direction that you would like to go. However, the funding is provided to the commissioner, and he will determine how that money is used. We want to ensure he had sufficient resources available to produce two high-quality debates, one in each official language, and to ensure that those would be diffused as widely as possible.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
Marie Vastel, of Le Devoir,
Andrew Coyne of the National Post—one of my favourites—Chris Selley of the National Post, Chantal Hébert of the Toronto Star, and Colby Cosh of the National Post have all written articles indicating that this is a bad idea. How can your government possibly think that you have the support of the journalistic community and sector when so many leading journalists have come out in opposition to this idea?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
Ms. Kusie, the key audience for this is Canadians. Ultimately we want Canadians to be able to see their leaders debate. The whole guiding principle—
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
And you don't think these top professionals know how to do that, given their experience?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
—of this proposal and the reason for creating a commission is to have Canadians' interests at the heart of it. That is specifically what we are doing. We are ensuring that the commissioner will have sufficient resources to ensure that a broadcasting entity will be able to produce quality debates for Canadians that will meet high journalistic standards, and also ensuring that the questions and the format are determined by those who are best able to do that.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
Is it true that one of the seven positions is held for a PCO member?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
There are seven advisory positions that the commissioner will choose. This is based on the consultations that we have conducted across the country that wanted to ensure that there was broad representation of diverse groups, of women, of official language minority communities, of the accessibility community—
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
—so it is up to the commissioner to determine who will fulfill those seven advisory positions.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
Finally, do you think $595 million, as outlined in the federal fall economic update yesterday, contributes to a democratic media?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
We have fundamentally different views about the news and journalism. On our side of the House, we believe that a strong, free, independent press is an absolute must and pillar in a democracy—
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
—and if we do not have that robust media landscape in Canada, our democracy will be at peril.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, Lib.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to welcome Minister Gould and Mr. Sutherland.
I'll start by quoting our colleague, David Christopherson.
At our last meeting, on November 6, we had Mr. Johnston and this is the beginning of Mr. Christopherson's quote:
You are the gold standard of public service and I can't imagine any position for which you wouldn't be eminently qualified to represent Canadians and bring that fairness and values, and your integrity and your intelligence, your experience, to bear. I can't emphasize enough, sir, that any of my comments that are negative are addressed to the process, to the government, to everything except you.
I have the highest regard for you, as does my caucus, and if at the end of the day, you end up being the debates commissioner, we as a country would be well served.
That's the end of the quote and after that, I have my question.
Minister Gould, I'll continue in French.
You said earlier that the televised debates would be available across the country. Canada is a large country, and sometimes access can be difficult.
Will the leaders' debates commission ensure that all Canadian living in rural and remote areas have access to the various debates? How will it do so?
Liberal
Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON
That's an excellent question.
We heard about this issue during the consultations on the debates.
I would like to point out that, when we were in Halifax, for example, people from the French-speaking minority community told us that, during the last election, they didn't have access to the leaders' debates in French in Nova Scotia.
These types of comments helped us confirm the importance of ensuring that everyone, no matter their location in the country or official language, has access to the debates. This includes people who live in rural and remote areas.
We've asked the commissioner to ensure that the debates are available to everyone. The commissioner will decide how this mandate will be implemented. However, we've given the commissioner a tool by ensuring that the debates can be broadcast for free by any broadcaster, including traditional broadcasters and new media. The broadcasters will be able to access and broadcast the debates for free over the radio, on television, through the Internet or in newspapers. We must ensure that everyone has free access to the debates.
Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, Lib.
Thank you.
My second question is as follows. When preparing its report, the committee spoke at length about the importance of education. I think education is important because young people must quickly embrace the process as soon as they need to vote for the first time, in order to fully participate in democracy.
How can Canadians be encouraged to participate more actively in the democratic process? How do you think the commission will implement this mandate?
