Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 12th, 2016

[Lisa MacLeod]

Thank you very much.

I have two comments here. One is that I think it's absolutely critical that every assembly in the country, including the House of Commons, consider a resource list for caregivers that we can access as members, and that doesn't necessarily just have to be caregivers for children, and it's not just during the day. Frequently we have events, whether it's in Toronto, Ottawa, or wherever, that we're required to go to in the evening. That type of child care was also very difficult for me. I really find myself nodding my head with that and agreeing with my colleague.

The second thing is that one thing we have started to do in the Ontario legislature is that we have our votes after question period, which the House of Commons may want to consider. Although we're doing question period in the morning, we do have votes right after question period. Members are all there, and it's a certain period of time. That's one consideration, but it's certainly something that we're doing here.

Again, I have to say very honestly that I believe the situation for child care at Queen's Park is the same as the House of Commons. It really isn't designed for members. It is designed for people who work and live in a community, and I think that's important. There should be child care available to staff, but it doesn't necessarily meet the needs of a mom or a dad who is travelling between cities and has an irregular workweek. I think that's a really key point that we have to be very public about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Ms. Boutin-Sweet, you have the floor.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Regarding the time of the votes, we have already begun holding them immediately after question period.

Ms. Moore, you have experience. We talked in the House of Commons of trying to find nannies. Can you tell us about your experience in this regard?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

After discussing things with the Speaker, the human resources director agreed to look into finding a nanny. Naturally, I would have been responsible for paying her, as the goal was to find someone who could come to the office with me, could follow me around, could take care of Daphnée, in short someone who could come with me to Parliament. I also wanted someone who could speak French, but we were unable to find anyone.

There is now a service on the Web that is called Nannies on Call. It is offered in several cities, Toronto among others, but is not yet available in Ottawa. If this service were offered in Ottawa it would be ideal. It would allow us to have child care. The members could reserve a spot ahead of time and say, for instance, that they would need someone the following week for the entire week. The person who would be responsible for the service could reserve a certain number of babysitters according to the needs and the number of children who would be there during that week.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Earlier, you said that you would bring Daphnée to the House of Commons and that the Speaker gave you that right, but it is not always easy to have a baby in your arms in this place. Do you have any suggestions to make on that?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I am sitting next to these windows. So there is some free space next to my desk. In a discussion with Minister McKenna, we talked about making small chairs that could be installed next to the desks. In that way, the babies could be seated. There is enough space. A member with a young baby could ask to sit next to the windows so that she could put the small seat next to her. In that way, her baby would be seated next to her. This would make her life easier as she could then get up without having to stand with her baby. With a little bit of ingenuity, I am sure that it would be possible to make such seats. I offered to do it myself, but I was told that there are people here who have the necessary expertise to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you very much for the time.

I forgot to welcome Daphnée to our committee meeting.

Now we have Madam Petitpas Taylor.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Good morning, ladies. Thank you for your frankness and for sharing your personal experiences.

Ms. Moore, I am a new member on the Hill. I watched you this winter going about in snowstorms. When I went to my riding, I often talked about you and your courage. Thank you very much for everything you do.

I would like you to perhaps elaborate on something. There was a response that was given earlier with respect to both Ms. Copps and Ms. Moore regarding when you were in the House. With your experience perhaps you were the only ones who had a child in the House at the time. You had individuals who would assist you like the pages and other staff who were there. But if we were to have 15 babies in the House, how do you think that could have worked back then, and how could we make it work now as well? With these policies that we're looking at we want to encourage more people to be here, and not just have one or two people here.

Perhaps you could elaborate on that.

[Sheila Copps]

That's why you need to revisit the child care.

When I came to Parliament there was no child care available for anybody from zero to basically the age of two and a half. Now maybe it's one and a half. You have to be toilet-trained to go into the Hill day care. Effectively, the first two years of the their life you're on your own. If you had infant child care here, that would solve the problem.

The only reason that I ended up conscripting the pages was because the way the Hill's day care works is that you have to pick them up at six o'clock. I think there was a fifteen-minute leeway. It might have been a quarter to six or six, I can't remember. It ended up being just about the middle of the votes, so you'd run over and get them before the vote. When the vote was on they weren't allowed in the House so they'd be sitting in the anteroom. Sometimes you'd have a member of your own staff come up because you might be speaking or have notes or whatever. Sometimes the women and the men who were the pages would love to play with them so they would take them. She was the only one. Probably because there have not been children in great numbers, nobody has really addressed the issue.

That's what you're looking at now; that is, expanding out to include zero. Also, it's having this list of people who are available on an urgent, on-call basis so you can say, “Look, I have an emergency. I need to get to the riding.” You can have this list that could help.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I can add to that. In fact, if we have the day care in Centre Block, just outside of the House, I don't think we will have to bring the babies into the House. This will deal with the issue. In terms of breastfeeding, maybe if we have long votes...but as long as we have the day care with extended hours we won't have to bring them into the House.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

In our workplace, are there things we could improve, for instance regarding transportation or moving from room to room in the building? Do you have any other suggestions that could make life on the Hill easier for parents?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Of course, ideally the day care would be as close as possible to the actual House of Commons. We would only have to go down the stairs to breastfeed the baby, do what we have to do and come back.

I experienced that at the NDP convention. There was a day care in the building where the convention was held. All I had to do was go down a flight of stairs to visit with my daughter and breastfeed her. Afterwards, I was able to go back to the convention and continue to participate.

We will soon be moving into the West Block. We could move the day care closer at that point. While the Centre Block is being renovated, we could take advantage of that to rethink things and prepare a room. The move gives us an opportunity for better planning.

As for getting around, that is quite complex. When you leave the parliamentary precinct and use Ottawa streets, ideally, the child would have to be in a child seat attached to the bus seat. I did this once. The problem is that the green shuttle buses do not have safety belts. As for the white buses, their seat belts are not long enough to go around the child seat.

The simplest solution is to take my car, and that is what I do. That is in fact how I got here earlier. I put the stroller and all of the things in my car and I drove to the Centre Block where there are now parking spots reserved for mothers with strollers. I took all of the things out of the car. When we are done, I'm going to take my car because going up the hill with a stroller isn't always easy, especially when there is snow. In the summer, it is a little easier to do it on foot, but in the winter it is quite tricky. For the moment, the easiest solution is to take my car to get around. On the bus it is quite complicated because the bottom part of the stroller takes up a lot of room. You can manage, but it's quite complicated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Ms. Sahota, go ahead. You have one minute.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Actually, I'm going to be sharing some time. In this final one minute, since both of you here have been pregnant while being members of Parliament, could you both address this?

Ms. Moore, in which month did you give birth to your daughter? I'm not quite clear.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I gave birth to my daughter in September, so I was 32 weeks when I stopped sitting in the House. In fact, it wasn't that bad for me because there was no advanced medical care if I had my baby prematurely. In fact, it was better to be in Ottawa than in my riding. If I had my baby before the time I would have been evacuated anyway if I had been in my riding. It was a good thing for me to be here.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

We've been talking a lot about after having the baby, what happens, how can we take care of the child here. Also, there are those who are wishing to have children. I had some discussions with other members of Parliament who may not have any kids yet and they're hoping to start a family at some point. It seems very daunting to them to try to figure out when is best to have the child—and it doesn't always work that way.

Are there any suggestions, since you've been through this process, that you may have for our committee as to how we can improve the leave, or as you mentioned, voting from your riding, or other things so that people don't have to choose between serving as a member or having a family?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I would say that maybe we can, through health services, have access to doctors, specialists in pregnancy. Our doctors are often in our ridings. If there's a question, or an emergency or something, and were unsure, we don't have any doctors, any contacts. Maybe health services can find a way to give us access to a doctor who can follow pregnant women if we need it.

[Sheila Copps]

I'd like to take a slightly different tack, because I think pregnancy and birth is about that period of transition for the first two years. You can fix the child care quite easily here on the Hill. The other issues are probably more problematic.

The bottom line is that when your child starts school—and I think Lisa is on line here—and you're trying to split yourself between two places, it's a huge balancing act. But the member of Parliament who spoke about having.... The same thing happens to a man who comes to Ottawa and has to leave his family. There are huge sacrifices involved in politics.

I think it would be interesting—and I know my daughter would love to appear, if the committee could pay her travel costs from Calgary, because she's living in Calgary right now—to hear from the kids.

It's a wonderful experience to be a child of a politician. I used to play housewife, because that's what my mother was. When my child was growing up, she used to play reporter. She used to take a little stick and interview me, because that's what she would see around the Hill. She ended up with such a broad and expansive view of the country that it was a wonderful blessing. Yes, it is challenging, but I think the benefits that accrue from being exposed to this life of.... It's somewhat of a spalpeen life—you are a bit of a nomad as a politician—but those characteristics can also lend themselves very well to growing a child who's very flexible in adult life. I think it would be fun to hear from the kids.

When my daughter was growing up, the last thing she wanted to do was hear about politics. I'm surprised, Lisa, that you can even get your daughter to go to political.... But she's only 11, so wait until she's 14. Now that she's 29, she's thinking again, so I think there is a huge positive to it.

Just like those women who may not have thought about running but finally just said, go for it, I would say, go for it. You can accommodate, and there will be reasonable accommodations in this place. It's a wonderful place for a kid to grow up. All of the members on all sides have that experience. It's something you share together. I think it's really positive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

We'll have our last questioner, Mr. Richards, for a couple of minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks.

I had a number of things come to mind.

I was listening to you, Ms. Moore, so I'm going to focus my questions mainly towards you. The day care issue has been adequately covered, so I'll skip by it. I think it's been talked about quite a bit today. You mentioned a couple of things.

One that struck me was your mentioning the idea of parental leave. I think you indicated that it wasn't really leave you were seeking; it was more special accommodations that would be available for mothers in, I think you said, the first six months after a child is born. It was the ability to work remotely, for things such as speeches and voting and things like those.

Was that what I heard? Did you want to elaborate on that a bit?

The second question.... I'll just ask them both at the same time, and you can elaborate on both of them. You mentioned for votes specifically the idea, when there are longer voting blocks—when voting takes more than two hours, I think you said—of building in breaks of some kind.

I could see, especially when you think of some of the marathon votes we've had, that this would obviously be helpful for mothers or fathers with children, but there are probably also a number of other members for whom it would be helpful. I know there have been members who had other medical issues, or similar things, that they were dealing with, and it was certainly difficult for them during some of those longer voting periods.

I would be curious to hear whether you had any specific thoughts or proposals on that aspect of building breaks into a longer voting session.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We could take a 15-minute break every couple of hours during voting periods, to give people time to eat, go to the washroom, and so forth. That makes sense to me. People with diabetes need to eat; if they don't, they could be endangering their health. That's a specific example of a group of people who absolutely need to take a break. Otherwise, they would have to miss votes, and that would be unfortunate. That isn't necessarily a work-life balance issue, per se.

As for parental leave, it should be possible for the parent to work from their riding. An MP's entire support network, child care providers and those who can help us, often live in our ridings. When an MP brings their one-month-old or two-month-old to Ottawa, it's very hard to make arrangements without that support network. There are also many visits to the doctor and follow-up appointments, both for the new mother and the baby. Having to come to Ottawa in the first few months after giving birth makes life very complicated.

I don't think any member would want to take six months off work. They would prefer to be able to work from their riding because they would be able to control their schedule. It would give them the opportunity to adjust their work hours and go into the office on days when they had child care. Members have much more flexibility when they can work from their ridings. It might even be possible for them to work from home.

As an MP, I would say it's impossible to take six months off work. When I go to the grocery store, I run into a constituent who tells me about a problem they're having. Short of staying at a hideaway in the woods somewhere for six months, it's impossible not to work as an MP. People recognize us and tell us about what they are going through, wherever they run into us. Being able to work from our ridings would help a lot.

That would require establishing a remote voting system, through a smart phone app, for instance. It could display the motion and allow for voting. The application could even be set up to take a photo of the member to ensure it was indeed them casting the vote. It could also be used to submit a brief corresponding to a speech the member would have given had they been able to rise in the House on a given bill. A mechanism could be set up to submit petitions or private member's bills, either remotely or through an intermediary.

At the end of the day, I don't think members who have just had a child, like myself, are asking for six months off work. Rather, we are asking for working conditions that make more sense for us. My baby spends 14 hours in the car every weekend. She's good in the car, but not all babies do well with travel. Those 14 hours are tiring, and they certainly take their toll on both the baby and the member who has just given birth and gone through a physically trying experience, from a medical standpoint.

Commuting between our ridings and Ottawa is demanding. If the member could avoid all that travel, they could come back to work on the Hill refreshed and ready to go. They could also opt to come to Ottawa once every two weeks. They could be here in person the week when something important was going on or their presence was absolutely necessary, and stay home the following week. That would be less draining on the child and allow for some flexibility during the baby's first six months. I think new fathers should also have that option.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Mr. Christopherson.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

With your indulgence, consistent with talking about making the world a better place, I just want to take a minute first of all to thank Sheila for coming. I was the one who made the recommendation.

We're very proud of Sheila. In Hamilton, the Copps name is part of the Hamilton DNA, starting with her dad, a well-known former mayor, and her mom, as mentioned, who was a councillor and an alderman in ward 4. I was her seatmate for five years before I went on to Queen's Park.

[Sheila Copps]

David used to babysit Danelle when she came to town.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I did.

I was asked by Mayor Fred Eisenberger if I would be good enough to bring to Ottawa to give to Sheila, on behalf of the City of Hamilton, an award to her mother for her work on city council for so many years in terms of making Hamilton a barrier-free community for all Hamiltonians.

So I thought how appropriate at a time when we're collectively talking about making the world a better place, not only Sheila and her dad, but also her mom, played a significant role in Hamilton. I'm so proud to have known them.

I'd like to take a minute to present this to Sheila and ask her to give it to her mom with the thanks of not just Hamilton but Canada for the work that she has done to make this a better place.