Evidence of meeting #144 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was signatures.

A recording is available from Parliament.

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On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Natzler  Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
André Gagnon  Deputy Clerk, Procedure
Jeremy LeBlanc  Principal Clerk, Chamber Business and Parliamentary Publications
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon

12:45 p.m.

Principal Clerk, Chamber Business and Parliamentary Publications

Jeremy LeBlanc

As André mentioned in his presentation, if someone were to open a petition today, February 28, and have it open for 120 days, it could never be presented, so we'd have to put that warning up now.

As spoken

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Yes, now, and that's my point.

As spoken

12:45 p.m.

Principal Clerk, Chamber Business and Parliamentary Publications

Jeremy LeBlanc

It's seven months before the election.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

If you guys were not clerks at the moment, do you have a personal opinion on...?

As spoken

12:45 p.m.

Deputy Clerk, Procedure

André Gagnon

We're always clerks, Mr. Chair.

As spoken

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

We should call David back.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Do you see any rationale or fairness for the petitions not being the same?

As spoken

12:45 p.m.

Deputy Clerk, Procedure

André Gagnon

The question you may want to ask yourself is whether citizens see the difference. What we're talking about here, certification of paper petitions, is something that's probably not known by a lot of people, I would say. The difference between this type of petition and the electronic type of petition is a detail that's probably not known by the vast majority of the population.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

But is there any rationale, in terms of fairness, to have different systems for the two?

As spoken

12:45 p.m.

Deputy Clerk, Procedure

André Gagnon

That's for the committee to decide.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Go ahead, Mr. Jowhari.

As spoken

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Yes, thank you.

If I wanted to hedge, I would always go to the paper and make sure that I have more than 120 days left, because now that petition is always there. If the House rises, I get that petition back and I can give it to another MP or myself to table without having to go and get the signatures, whereas if I have an e-petition, as in the case that I explained, and now I've decided not to, there's no way it's going to be able to be tabled, so now, when it comes to the next Parliament, if and when I'm back, I have to launch another petition to be able to do that, whereas I wouldn't need to do that with the paper.

As spoken

12:45 p.m.

Deputy Clerk, Procedure

André Gagnon

Yes, that could be a—

As spoken

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

I'll just resubmit it for recertification.

As spoken

12:45 p.m.

Deputy Clerk, Procedure

André Gagnon

We're talking here about a very small window of time. It's usually at the end of a Parliament—

As spoken

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

No, I realize that, but what I'm saying is that with the paper, I always have the opportunity to recertify it, whereas with the electronic petition, it's gone.

As spoken

12:45 p.m.

Deputy Clerk, Procedure

André Gagnon

Yes. Some would say, however, that you're in a position to gather many more signatures with an electronic petition. I think around 1,300 people a day sign petitions on the website. It's up to members.

As spoken

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

No, no, I agree. It is easier because it's across the country, while being able to get the paper across the country.... I totally understand and support digital.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

I'll take David's proposal as a motion that the status quo stay, and I'll open for debate on that.

Go ahead, Stephanie.

As spoken

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

I believe we're in support of the idea.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Is there anyone else?

I will call the question. All those in favour of leaving the status quo in place so that paper petitions can be reinstated in the next Parliament but electronic petitions cannot, please signify.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 4; nays 3 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

That doesn't preclude our revisiting the matter, but that's your decision for now.

As spoken

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Changing it would have required changing the Standing Orders, right?

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

No, it would just be a report from us to Parliament, and Parliament would have to approve it.

As spoken

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Chair, we talked briefly about that letter to the next committee, our letter to our future selves. That could be something we could include for further consideration at the next Parliament.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Sure.

Gentlemen, thank you very much. We always appreciate the great work you've done. This system is going to make it a lot more apparent to people.

As spoken