Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 19th, 2019

[Michel Patrice]

Unfortunately, I don’t have a crystal ball. I wouldn’t want to speculate as to whether it will be sooner or later. We’ll see. It will become clearer as the work progresses.

[Linda Lapointe]

I still find it quite surprising that Centre Block is being closed and that so little is known about its structural condition. Back in October, I watched an episode of Découverte. The program reported quite a bit of detailed information. From the show, it seemed that everything had been evaluated and that there was a clear sense of what the next steps were. I don’t get the impression that—

[Michel Patrice]

For historic buildings and projects of this magnitude, it’s always possible to come up with better projections or guesses. I prefer to deal in facts, because I like to know that, when I say something, it’s based on research and science, as opposed to average-based data for similar projects.

[Linda Lapointe]

I see.

[Michel Patrice]

We have a very high-level plan. The experts and other stakeholders know exactly what has to be done to deliver a successful project. There are very high-level steps, and those working on the project know exactly where the process is headed. Neither we nor the experts know all the details about the project.

I often liken it to a home renovation, which, by the way, is much more straightforward because we know how a home is built. Nevertheless, there are always surprises. Everything can’t be expected to go according to plan during a small renovation. That is all the more true when carrying out a project of this magnitude, with this kind of construction and symbolism at stake. The surprises will be many.

I would go back to something Mr. Reid mentioned, because right now he's involved in a project. Obviously at some point in time we're going to have a design and a plan. I'm going to suggest that we cannot be fools and think that those plans won't change if the project is under way for a period of 10 years, for example. We need to be ready to reassess when needed or when the circumstances change, and to address and accept changes to the design, even though it may have been adopted, approved and agreed to in January 2022, for example. We need to be open-minded enough to go back and say, “Things have changed, or as we were doing it we found a better solution, or the needs have changed in terms of bathrooms, or layout,” and things like that.

That's why it's important in my view that MPs, and I repeat, are continuously engaged. When I say continuously, I'm talking from the start to the end, because we're not doing this building for ourselves; we're doing it for you, because that's your workplace and that's the art of democracy.

[Linda Lapointe]

Thank you very much.

[Michel Patrice]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Of course, the technology is changing so quickly.

We'll go to Mr. Graham and then Mr. Reid.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have more comments than questions at the moment.

We were talking about the oversight committee. I'll come back to it quickly. I proposed that it become a subcommittee of PROC or a committee of the chair and vice-chairs of PROC, or something, to have a direct connection between that oversight committee and PROC. We're in the loop and it's not a committee of whips, who have a very different perspective from all the other MPs, which is one thing I'm concerned about.

So I want that on the record now.

The other thing is to ensure that a former parliamentarian is on the oversight committee, someone like David who will soon be a former parliamentarian, who has a deep understanding of privilege of the place—which not everybody does—and somebody who will still remember Centre Block when it reopens, because by the time this project is finished, a PROC committee might not have anybody who's ever seen the inside of Centre Block. So it would be nice to have somebody on that oversight committee who remembers what it was supposed to look like. If three-quarters of Parliament changes again, which can happen every generation, and it takes a generation to do Centre Block, no one's going to have a clue what Centre Block's supposed to do.

So I think it's important to have that institutional memory brought with us by people who have worked in that building and know what it can and should do.

But I do have a quick question. It's been a burning question for me since we opened West Block, albeit it's less serious. Why is there a cat door on the side doors of all of our committee rooms? Take a look at that door. You'll find a little cat door on it.

[Susan Kulba]

It's for cable pass-through.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Cable pass-through, okay, because it's just the right size and shape for a cat.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That's all I've got for now. Thank you.

[Susan Kulba]

The cats are long gone.

[Stéphan Aubé]

It's a requirement of the media so that they will have access, if ever they need to televise outside.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

It's for the media, okay.

Sorry, I did have one more quick comment. The elm tree shouldn't be cut down. Shut it down for 10 years and renovate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

You have a sensitivity to cats and trees.

Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

There is some evidence. I was just reading.... I've got so many papers here, but our friends at Greenspace have given us some information about the elm tree.

They've got a piece here that discusses the tree and says it may not be as unhealthy as has been reported. I took the liberty of confirming that there was a parallel story of an elm tree, the Washington Elm in Cambridge, Massachusetts, supposedly the spot under which Washington commanded the American army in the revolution. It was already old and large at that time. As a result it was seen as iconic and it survived and finally died of old age at the age of 210 in 1923, the moral of the story being that this tree might have a lot of life in it if it's allowed to live.

I want to ask a couple of questions relating to the visitors centre, phase two.

So the work on phase two will begin, I assume, before major work on Centre Block begins, Ms. Kulba?

[Susan Kulba]

In digging into the ground, yes, that's what they're planning at this point. Again, the schedules are not firmed up through Public Works. We've received some draft preliminary ones but their plan is to start to dig—

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

That would have the effect of removing the circular drive from operation. Would it also have the effect of intruding upon things like Canada Day celebrations, the light shows, and the weekly Wednesday yoga that has become a part of our culture up here—for some of us less intensively, I admit, than others. I'm not as stretchy as other people, I guess.

But all of these things could be intruded upon. We have no information at all, and some of these things are taken very seriously by Ottawa residents and by Canadians in general.

[Susan Kulba]

That's correct. Public Works has indicated to the best of their ability that they want to keep the activities of the Hill ongoing.

So right now we know that they want to put hoarding just forward of the Vaux wall and that those activities would still have about half the lawn to use. So the space will be reduced, but they want to maintain the sound and light shows and the Canada Day celebrations. That's what they're trying to achieve.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Perhaps, colleagues, it might make sense to get someone from Public Works to give more detailed answers on those considerations.

Is there a completion date estimate or cost estimate for phase two as opposed to the overall Centre Block renovations at this point?

[Susan Kulba]

Not that we have. We don't have that information from Public Works.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Do you think somebody has that information, or is it something that is still too early to tell because we don't know?

[Michel Patrice]

It's probably too early right now.