Evidence of meeting #146 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tree.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Not all of us might agree with doing that, so I'll have to ask the question: Who would be approving this? We might want to insert ourselves in this process so as to redirect the outcome. Who exactly signs off on this?
12:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Again, this committee has been having conversations, I know, with the administration of the House. There's a lot of good work that's going on to help ensure that parliamentarians are more engaged in the work, which I think is essential. To walk this through in maybe a simplified manner, and hopefully it's not overly simplified: We don't do anything without the requirements coming from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Parliament sets the requirements and we then work hand in hand with parliamentary officials to develop the plans and designs. We then work hand in hand again with parliamentary officials to ensure that those requirements are being developed—
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I'll stop you to ask you, when you say parliamentary officials, who do you mean? Do you mean the Board of Internal Economy? The Speaker? Some other body?
12:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
As Public Services and Procurement Canada, we don't directly interface with parliamentarians. It's the administration of the House that leads that engagement with parliamentarians, of course with the Senate. We come as requested to parliamentary committees.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I'm just trying to figure it out. Someone signs off so you can say this has been authorized. I'm trying to figure out who. We literally don't know who that someone is.
12:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
On requirements and on major plans, absolutely. To date, and I know things are perhaps shifting a little now, those presentations and endorsements would have been through the Board of Internal Economy, of course, which the Speaker chairs.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
I want to thank you all for being here. I assure you that, like Mr. Reid, I do trust that you understand and appreciate the significance of the Hill and are dedicated to that work. There's no doubt about that on my part, although I may be asking you some tough questions about that.
In terms of the landscape plan for this site, I guess I'm one of those for whom—I've only been here eight years, and I hope to come back for a few more—the treed spot next to Centre Block has been very important. I often meet people there in the only shaded spot. Does the landscape plan for the future include a treed spot on that exact spot?
12:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Certainly, and part of the National Capital Commission's review was to really make sure that there was going to be enough soil over the visitor welcome centre to support the replanting of large trees in that area. So yes, part of that plan is to, if you will, reforest that area over time.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
So the visitor centre, as it's currently planned, does extend under that site.
12:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, if you get an idea from phase one, it's an underground facility and we have the ability to landscape over top of the facility.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
You talked about the symmetry, but you're talking about it being five times larger on one side. That doesn't seem symmetrical to me. It would seem logical to me that you could make reductions, and you talked about 15% if you moved back. You wouldn't lose symmetry as a result of that. You might lose it for other reasons. But the size is so different. The scope is so different.
12:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Most of the size comes from in front of Centre Block not from.... It would be symmetrical in size, the eastern portion to the western portion. Most of the size is really about the visitor welcome centre. If you've been—and I'm sure most of you have—to the Capitol building in Washington, you'll know the underground visitor centre is fairly similar. The largest component of phase two, the visitor welcome centre, will actually be under the great lawn, invisible to the eye.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
I'm still having trouble with the symmetry argument, because it would seem quite possible architecturally to recreate symmetry without having to go underneath this site.
12:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
As you might note on the western side, there's a plaza and an entry point that acts as a node for Centre Block and West Block. So in the vision, we would be creating that same symmetrical node on the eastern side with the connection point between Centre Block and East Block.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
That would be in front of this site, since you've told me that this site would be a treed site.
12:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The trees will be over the top of the site, yes.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Like Mr. Reid, I share some concerns about the size, but I've not been sitting on those committees and it's not for us to stick an oar in at this point.
Obviously, we're going to be operating with the new phase one of the visitor centre for at least a decade. So the capacity thing for security and for visitors must already be solved or we wouldn't be able to operate for 10 years just with that portion of it operating. We're operating with committee rooms. All those things are operating for the next decade.
I have questions about whether the necessity of that visitor centre being of that size has been a proven point. I guess it all comes back to what our priorities are here. My priority is that it be a treed site and that the work start on that essentially.
When you talked about the studies for the tree, you said an interesting thing we hadn't heard before. I'd like to know how many of those studies were premised on the tree having to move, because that's what you actually said to us, that the tree was studied for moving not for preservation.
Do we have any studies that asked what it would take to preserve that tree on site? It doesn't sound as if we do.
12:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Parliamentary Precinct, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There are a number of points and questions there. I'll maybe start with the last one and then pass off to Ms. MacDonald.
You're quite right. A lot of the analysis was about whether this tree was a viable candidate for relocation and replanting, but we did look at what would be required if the tree were to stay in situ; if the visitor welcome centre were going to be quite significantly altered in its scope, what would have to be done? It seemed to be, one, fairly significant, and, two, with a low likelihood of success.
Maybe I'll pass it on to Ms. MacDonald to give some expert testimony.
12:45 p.m.
Senior Landscape Architect and Arborist, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I evaluated the tree primarily for assessment as a candidate for transplant, for sure, but one of the earlier reports specifically looked at retaining it in place. The determination of that arborist was that the remediation to the root zone would not likely ensure long-term survival of the tree.
I have similar concerns for its long-term survival. I think it probably will leaf out this spring, but, to me, the questions are, how much longer does it have and why do we think that?
The drought conditions that were experienced last summer are a really valid point in terms of that being the sole determination of the tree's health, but that wasn't entirely what I based my assessment on. When I looked at the tree in September, it had very poor foliage, but it was compared to the other tree and also compared to the different components within the tree that were of concern to me. The north half of it had really bad foliage and the south half had slightly better foliage. Based on my evaluation at the time, I concluded that the north half is possibly diseased.
It is also impacted by a really large cavity injury. A cavity isn't necessarily a bad thing in a tree. Very large trees can survive cavities with no problem. However, the location of this one was of concern to me. The fact that it was on the part of the stem that was showing diminished foliage was more conclusive to me in terms of the tree's general health, as opposed to just the tree having not very many leaves. It is sort of a question of being relative to itself.
In the long term, I think there will be more and more dieback on that tree. The decision has to be made about what value it is offering in terms of that, and I suppose at what point it is past the point of being worth saving.
It's difficult to determine exactly when a tree is dead. If a tree has one living branch on it and the rest of the tree is not alive, then technically it's still living.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Excuse me. With respect, we're a long way from that with this tree.
12:45 p.m.
Senior Landscape Architect and Arborist, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It's certainly a long way from having just one living branch on the whole tree. However, I found that a good half of the tree was in pretty rough condition, and that was confirmed by an aerial investigation we did in March when we were looking for the twigs to send to the University of Guelph.
