Evidence of meeting #155 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was building.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I was also enjoying Madame Lapointe's intelligent questions, and the answers were very enlightening as well, so I thank those witnesses who responded.
I want to thank all the witnesses who are here today, and in particular for the very helpful additional information you have given us. This deck you've presented to us is far and away the most informative thing we've seen so far, which we are all grateful for.
As one would expect, it raises many questions.
There was one question I wanted to start with before returning to the documents. This is for Mr. Patrice. When you appeared before us on March 19, you stated that the Board of Internal Economy had approved a governance model, which presumably would be highly relevant going forward. Could you table a copy of that governance model with our clerk?
Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons
Yes, I will provide you the decision taken by the Board of Internal Economy. The governance model will be defined, frankly, by the members of that working group, but obviously, that working group, as per the discussion at the Board, will report to the Board, and it will also consult and meet with this committee and other stakeholders going forward toward a successful program.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Would it be unreasonable to ask you to table the relevant documentation in time for us to look at it at our Thursday meeting, which will also be on the same subject?
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I'd really appreciate it if you could.
Thank you for the very helpful Gantt chart. I look down it and see that you divided things up timewise. The first one is April to September—we're in that period now—when certain things commence.
The one thing that ends in September 2019 is the Centre Block decommissioning. That is done sometime in September. A number of things start in the period we're in now, and continue on post-September. The one that strikes me most significantly is the schematic design issue. It seems to me that starting that process before the next election is highly problematic in terms of getting input from the House of Commons and us.
Additionally, I should note that construction management—the tendering—starts in September, so there may actually be tenders that are put up before Parliament or the House of Commons has a chance to do any oversight. We are going to be in the middle of an election; no one will be in a position to do oversight. I think that is problematic.
In the interest of the House of Commons—which, after all, is the body that oversees expenditures—having its appropriate share of control over this, both on the costs side and what the costs are being incurred for, I encourage you to put that off until the post-election period. I recognize that this would not speed up the project, but this is one of those times when I think it might be appropriate. My colleagues may contradict me on this point, but that's my initial observation. That is a problematic timeline. I just throw that thought out for your consideration.
Mr. Malcic, thank you for being here. I found your comments with regard to the architectural issues very informative. I did have an administrative question for you. From whom do you formally take your marching orders or instructions? Or, if you wish, who are you contracting with?
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I see Ms. Garrett raising her hand. Does that mean they take their instructions from you?
Director General, Centre Block Program, Department of Public Works and Government Services
They do. PSPC is both the project implementer—the RC or financial authority for the project and the monies that we get for Treasury Board and the project authorities associated with it—and the contracting authority, through our department. We tendered Centrus' contract, and they take instructions from us as the technical authority for that contract.
In terms of that, we get requirements from parliamentary partners, which we translate into scope and a mission for the designer to execute, but they do get their instructions from PSPC.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Is it just one contract that you folks have, Mr. Malcic, or is it more than one?
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I assume that contract is a matter of public record. I shouldn't ask you, Mr. Malcic; I should ask you, Ms. Garrett. Would you be able to submit that to this committee?
Director General, Centre Block Program, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Absolutely, we can submit that. In fact, we provided that information to the administration of the House of Commons, and it's on buyandsell.gc.ca publicly. It was publicly tendered and is publicly available. We will absolutely get that information to you.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
With regard to the construction management design packages, I assume there's some tendering that may be going on. While the tenders won't be put out, is it possible to submit what their content will be—what the tenders are for—to this committee? Is that done at this point, and if so, could it be given to us?
Director General, Centre Block Program, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Absolutely. We'd be happy to do that. Maybe I could premise that with just a bit of context for you, because it might help put you at ease a little bit.
We're cognizant that we're working in the time frame of an election. We are trying to do engagements and get some feedback to make sure that we can continue to work on the program. Fortunately, some of the early decisions are really around the base building aspects, particularly in support of the two key milestones that I was talking about earlier in the presentation, starting with targeted demolition and abatement, which needs to be done one way or the other within Centre Block itself, as well as the commencement of excavation. We're not talking about tendering our entire program to execute through the construction manager. We're talking about tendering associated with those early works.
We'd be happy to provide those details when they're ready. We're working on that documentation right now.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Thank you.
If there is anything you can submit to us, we would like to have it. I'll leave it at that and perhaps we can follow up with our clerk at the next meeting as to what you were able to submit.
Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
In that case, thank you all for being here and for your very informative responses.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
I forgot to welcome Dominic Lessard, deputy director, real property, with the House of Commons.
Thank you for joining us.
Mr. Christopherson.
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
That's great. Thank you, Chair.
Thank you all for being here.
It's interesting, quite fascinating, to watch this evolve.
To me it looks like one of the tricky things going forward is the possibility of a parallel chamber. The good news is that this would enhance our democracy; we've already had an initial study. We haven't made it yet, but my hunch is that there'll be a positive recommendation going to the House that we continue to look at this.
The downside is that it's not a decision that's going to be made right away, yet it may be an important ingredient because of the space. It has to be dedicated; it'll just be for that purpose if it's the way we're currently looking at it.
I'd appreciate your thoughts on how we would move forward with that, given the various timings here.
Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons
We're going to adapt to the requirements of the House of Commons. Obviously, we've been listening with interest to the committee's discussions on the parallel chamber and are looking forward to the report of the committee and the decision of the House on this matter. It's our role to respond to and adapt to the needs of the House and its members.
NDP
Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons
It depends on the size of the parallel chamber that you're talking about. I've read and learned that in some jurisdictions the size is not necessarily as significant as the existing chamber.
