Evidence of meeting #21 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chamber.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
Right. That was one year's expenditure on dependants' travel. That's partly because the full details of all of the members' claims are immediately publicly revealed on the IPSA website. By anecdote, members are not always happy at having their family travel arrangements exposed to immediate public view.
Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
But IPSA—say that again?
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
No, you're right on the point that I was asking about. Go ahead. Please continue.
Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
Until 2009, the scheme was that 12 journeys by a spouse or dependent child to and from London were permitted. I don't know what the IPSA scheme is at the moment, but we can make those things available to you. I think it's broadly similar.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you.
The question I was asking was exactly that. We've heard from some family members, particularly when there's a young family with a number of children, that the family is somewhat reluctant to take advantage of their opportunity to travel because of the politics of the reporting. Part of what we're seized with is recognizing that dilemma and doing something about it without losing the accountability that caused the problem to rise up in the first place.
It doesn't sound as if you have any new, particularly creative ways of doing this, but it does seem to be a consistent problem in both countries.
Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
It's not a problem that I would claim to be an expert in, other than knowing members fairly well, but no, I think there is no creative way out of it.
Some travel by members is paid for by the House, and we do not publish it immediately. Some of it we publish only in total and not in detail and publish later, either quarterly, annually, or on request, although under the freedom of information regime, which I think is similar to yours, not everybody asks all the time.
I think it's the immediacy of something appearing on a website that causes people concern. Saying “Yes, in the course of the year, I got £900 so that my partner or dependent child could be with me for some days at Westminster” is less embarrassing than someone saying “Oh, I see that yesterday there was another £42 gone on bringing whomever down to London.” That's an impression I have.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I leave it with the chair. I don't know whether it's worth having our analyst follow up to see whether there's something there in the detail that we should look at.
The reason I'm riding this one is that it doesn't affect me. My experience is that it's best for those of us who aren't involved ourselves to be raising these issues.
My daughter is 24, so it doesn't apply much, and she's almost in her last year of using it, but there's got to be some method. When spouses say that the family had been reluctant because of the politics, that's the antithesis of why the travel points are there and it's the antithesis of a family-friendly parliament, so I'm hoping that we'll spend some time finding a resolution that still leaves accountability in place. No one is ever suggesting we let go of that, but we want to do something that prevents this chilling effect from stopping members from uniting with their family because of the politics of it. That should be the least of it, yet it seems to be the most of it.
Thank you so much. You've been very helpful on an important file for us.
Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
If I may say without wishing to lead you, you might find it of value to look at other bits of the public service where there is separation, particularly in the armed forces and, in our country, the foreign office. They have family schemes whereby family members can join whoever is serving abroad or is serving in other parts of the country, again with accountability but with some privacy as well.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
Not surprisingly, you got to use over seven minutes with your one question.
We'll go to Ms. Petitpas Taylor.
Liberal
Liberal
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
Okay.
First and foremost, I'd like to echo the comments of my colleagues around the table. Thank you so much to all three of you for taking time out of your busy schedules. For the past few months now, we've been looking at the issue of family-friendly models and we really want to collect all the information that we can, so we appreciate your time and your comments this afternoon.
I have a few questions just to piggyback a bit on Ms. Sahota. She talked to you a bit about the issue of paternity leave or maternity leave, and I was wondering what the average length of time is that parents are taking when they do take the leave?
Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
Are we talking about people in the country generally, not members?
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
No, I'm talking about members of Parliament.
Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
Well, I have not put this well.
Members don't take maternity leave in any formal way, so it's very difficult for me to say. You would have to ask each individual member, I think, how long they think they were on maternity leave, because it's a private arrangement, in essence, between them and their party whips.
Some of them are paired during absence. In other words, they're not expected to come to Westminster to vote, and someone from the other party—if you know pairing—and possibly a different person each day, is paired with them to cover their absence.
Somebody will have an idea as to how long. I saw a member who had very recently had a child. She was sitting in the atrium here in Portcullis House, and naturally I went up to see the child. I said, “What are you doing here? I thought you were away”, and she said, “It's a keeping-in-touch day, a KIT”, which of course we have in our ordinary maternity regime for staff.
It's quite difficult—I'm sure it's different in Canada—to keep politicians away from Westminster.
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
Do you have a written policy when it comes to maternity leave?
Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
Do you mean in relation to members?
Clerk of the House, United Kingdom House of Commons
No, but in relation to members, each party may have something close to a policy. I think it happens sufficiently rarely. About every nine months, we get a birth. We're very busy people. They work it out as they go along in each case. It makes a difference whether or not you're in London. It may make a difference depending on each individual's circumstances and whether it's their first child or not.
Do you have a feel for that?
Head of Diversity and Inclusion, United Kingdom House of Commons
No, I think it's been much along the lines of what you've said.