Evidence of meeting #45 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was champion.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
Allow Senate to continue to study the bills before it during a dissolution.
Are you saying after the election, when there's an election?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
What I said was strictly to PMBs. If the House passes a PMB and sends it to the Senate, I don't think the Senate should kill it just because the House stops sitting, because the Senate doesn't change in the election. I'm saying we should allow the Senate to finish its work on that PMB, if it has received it and is dealing with it.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
What it says, David, is “bills”. It doesn't restrict it to private bills, so would that be the same with government bills?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
Okay. We're going to amend number 20. We'll amend it to say “private members' bills”.
Before we go any further, and this is a little off topic, Anita brought up the Centre Block, and it reminded me of whether people think that as MPs they have enough say in giving suggestions on redesign.
For instance, our committee did a tour of the West Block, but it was already designed and half built. I don't know if any of us here...I've been here 11 years.
Tom, you've been here a long time, as has Blake. Do you feel we've had a sufficient chance to have input into this new design of buildings? Someone just goes ahead and does it. I'm not saying they're bad, but MPs have—
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
I don't think we've had any input, but I don't know if it's....
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK
I don't know if it would be helpful, frankly. You know, too many chefs spoil the broth. They contract professional designers who take a look at other parliaments and take into account a whole bunch of factors before they come up with a final design.
I've taken a look at West Block. I saw West Block in its very early days, and I've seen it two or three times since. I think it's going to be magnificent. I really do. I love the design, particularly the House of Commons. We'll never want to go back to Centre Block again.
In terms of having us included in the design, I think very few of us in this Parliament are architectural designers to begin with, so I don't know what benefit.... I don't know what we would add to it. Maybe some general comments as to the size of offices or the facilities required by members would be helpful, but for the actual design elements, I just don't see where this would be—
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
I wasn't thinking of the technical design so much as the things that we run into, like David ripping his pants.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I think it would be useful if any major changes went through a committee, whether it's a special committee or PROC, to at least be looked at: here's what we want to do, so is this acceptable to MPs? If it's not, we need to study it, and if it is, fine, let's carry on. We don't need to have 338 MPs providing their opinions. Have a committee that says, “This makes sense and this doesn't make sense.”
Otherwise, little issues.... Designers don't sit in those chairs. They don't know about the pockets, right? That's not their issue. It's like software from companies that engineers design and not the users. At the end of the day—
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
We would never know, until after having used the place, and having sat in the chairs, and going through the doors. It's hard to look at a plan and say, “I can spot the problems here, here, here,” unless you are an architect or a designer. A normal person would have to live in the place for a little while and then discover the flaws.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I take your point, but there needs to be some kind of.... Things like the pocket issue; I'll use it just as my example, because it's an easy one. The shape of the chairs has three ridges. It's very decorative, very pretty, and because we have it, we can't change it, because that's the tradition.
You could sand off the inner point and nobody would have a pocket torn again. It would be a very minor change. How do we get to that kind of thing?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
As a bigger example, what if in the new Centre Block, they decide we're not going to have any committee rooms because they want to do something else? A lot of us think this is a good place to have committee meetings, in Centre Block.
I think the Board of Internal Economy has a kick at this can. I think they decide these things. I don't remember ever being consulted as a backbencher MP on these things, not to have any veto or anything, but at least to put in comments. It is our workplace.
Mr. Davies.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I think there should be a process. It's one of those things where you buy the whole cow, and you probably get...even in this process you can see three, four, or five substantive proposals that may have influenced the design. For instance, the....
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Yes, the form of the chamber, whether it's circular or not, or whether it's two chambers, or whether there's a common room.
I know one thing that has affected us in the NDP is not being able to have a caucus meeting in Centre Block. After the two main rooms are taken, there's really no other room. We meet over in the Promenade building.
As long as there would be a way that you could separate the substantive, meaningful suggestions from the 5,000 suggestions you're going to get about the colour of the paint in the bathrooms....
Maybe you just have to take it all in and allow the designers and the deciders to sift through them. I don't think it's a bad idea to have that suggestion.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
A specific suggestion in our report on this is that we have the power to make recommendations to the Board of Internal Economy. We can make the recommendations to the Board of Internal Economy that when the plans are being drafted to return to Centre Block 10 years down the road, the plans should be made a lot sooner so that we at least have the opportunity to see it before it is approved. That was a request for a comments period.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
December 8th, 2016 / 12:20 p.m.
Liberal